PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!

[CaptainDippy]

Please please please give me some words of wisdom, support and reassurence right now. My DD1 (2yrs) dropped daytime sleeps about a month and a bit ago and is usual very tired and grumpy all day long (from about half 10am onwards!!) It very very tiring for me (espcially with DD2, 9 months, in tow) and I just don't know how to handle it. Most of the time I cope ok and just take her to a group in the morning and have lunch then go straight out again (she sometimes falls asleep for a little while in the pram) - It's a pretty full-on day for me but seems to work ok. However, she just gets days where she goes completely nuts - Today is one of those days and I am scared that I might lash out at her or something.....

I took her to her group this morning and she had a bit of a paddy at the end, it was pretty difficult getting her home. When we got home, I tried to give her and DD2 lunch. DD2 was exhausted (I have to get her up early from her morning nap if we go out) so I've put her to bed and she is asleep. DD1 was screaming loads and tired too so I have put her down in DD1's cot (she sleeps in a bed ususally) - She is thrashing around and screaming like someone is killing her and I am finding myself just getting soooo It is horrible and I just feel helpless. Please pray for patience and understanding and that DD1 would just get this out of her system soon because it is not good for her and not good for any of us. I just feel so stressed out and out of control.

I have posted before when DD1 fisrt dropped sleeps and everyone was very understanding and gave me loads of great advice and support, I REALLY appreciated it. The biggest piece of advice was to implement a "quiet time" period in the middle of the day - I have tried, but she ususal gets to the point of no return before I even have a chance to sit her down with a book or a DVD and is therefore too busy screaming and thrashing around to be interested in "quiet time". Sorry for such a waffley rant, but I just needed to get that out of my system. Thank you!!

Maybe she isn't ready to drop naps. ds2 (2.7) still naps every day and needs it. It's not up for discussion whether he naps. He is going to have a nap, because in my opinion he needs it.

ds1 (3.10) still has the occasional nap. When he is grotty and seems tired, down he goes for a nap. OK, so a bit of bribery is sometimes needed.

If she really won't then bring bed-time earlier and earlier . What time does she go to bed? ds2 is in bed by 7 and naps at around 2pm for an hour to an hour and a half.

You have my sympathy - over-tired, crabby, grotty children are a nightmare to deal with and push us to the limits. That is why, when it comes to sleep I call the shots.... you are in charge.... you do the same!

Gosh. I wish it was as simple as that, but telling her "you ARE going to have a nap" is not going to do anything - She just lies in her cot and screams and cries uncontrollably for as long as you like - I totally agree with you - she definitely needs her daytime naps still, but I cannot get her to have one for love nor money. She is still screaming now - I haven't a clue what to do. DD2 is alseep in her cot now so I can't go out. Guess I just leave her til ..... til!!!? I don't know - Til when!!!?

You obviously have very obediant children.

I just want to cry.

for you CaptainDippy. Do you have a car? Could you take them out in that for a bit of a drive?

Currently she is going to bed about 6.15ish (cos of dropping the daytime sleeps) - Can't really get much earlier than that (she was up at 5am this morning) I am at a complete loss.

I'd have to wake DD2 up for a drive and no, I don't have a car and I don't drive! She's screaming so much I am afraid she is going to do herself an injury....

... and also you say that your day is pretty full-on as you fill up the day. I would imagine it is extremely full on for her too and so perhaps you are just making the problem worse by keeping her busy all day? Just a thought.

Quiet times are all very well, but an over-tired toddler is unlikely to settle down very well if she is tired. When mine are tired they whine, fight and flop about. I think the ONLY way you are going to fix this is by helping her to get more sleep. Bring bedtime forward by 5-10 minutes every day until she is getting the sleep she needs....

Hope I'm helping....?

Hi CD. I'm sorry you're having such an awful time. I know it's probably not much comfort but a lot of us have been there too, so it's not just you!
I think maybe JAJ has a point about your dd1 needing the nap, even if she doesn't think so. My ds3 (2.4) is the same: he's NEVER napped in his cot/bed. His older brothers used to kick up too but napped eventually but he just screamed and thrashed about like your dd. I solved it by putting him in the buggy and taking him out - he falls asleep within a few minutes and then I bring him home for the rest of his nap. Of course, it may not work for you - and will probably be a pain with your baby in tow – but maybe it's worth a try? Our days are definitely better if ds3 has a sleep - even if it's only 30 mins. HTH

...no I have very naughty children sometimes and yes sometimes ds2 screams because he doesn't want to nap. Often he falls asleep after 15-20 mins of screaming, because he knows now he has no option. Other times I use bribery - "After you've had a sleep we will go to the park. If you don't sleep, then you will be too tired to go to the park.." That works sometimes.

CD, what's happening? Has she gone to sleep? Or is she still screaming?

CaptainDippy

As you seem to be able to get DD2 to have a nap, when she is asleep could you lie down with DD1 and cuddle or read quietly or something with her for 10-15 mins to see if this calms her. It may not but it is worth a try. Obviously you don't want to get in a habit of always doing this but if she can nap for a few days she may be less tired and be more easy to get to nap IYSWIM.

I have to say I agree that it seems like she still needs a nap (especially as she sometimes falls asleep in the afternoon in the pram).

I would try doing less for a while, maybe go out in the morning but stay in (maybe with a quick trip to the shops if necessary) for the afternoon for a few days and see if she gets less tired.

Mantra - this too will pass, this too will pass (she will get older and the tiredness will get better)

Hi - No, she screamed and thrashed til about 1.45 and then my friend turned up so I gave up, got her out of bed, and she was absolutely fine So I gave her some lunch, which she fussed over, but ate and then we went swimming, she got a bit whingy towards the end of swimming, but she was ok. She has now been in bed since 6.15pm. ARGH!!!

Would love to think that the amount of stuff we are doing is too full-on for her as well as me, but I have tried and tried to stay in the house of an afternoon, but DD1 gets major "Cabin Fever" and stays doing naughty things (scribbling over everything in sight, cutting through curtains with scissors and generally trashing the house) and becoming uncontrolable - I need to get out for my sanity.

I am still at a loss ..... sigh.

Thank you for support and advice.

CD I have every sympathy for you. My DS2 is 2.4yrs and he stopped having naps during the day about 6 months ago as a result he often gets over tired and ratty. Some days he can be lovely and happy but now and again we have days where he is a little sod and cries/screams/throws tantrums. Like you I find it very stressful to stay indoors when he is like this. Sometimes the fresh air/change of scenery helps me to calm down a bit even if it is embarassing having a screaming toddler with you. I have tried forcing him to have naps but to no avail, now i just let him play all day. I find when he gets very very tired he will lay on the sofa for 5mins which seems to recharge his batteries but he will never give in and drop off.

I hope the situation soon improves for you especially as you have DD2 to deal with as well. wish i could give you advice but as im in the same boat all I can offer is a {{{hug}}}

Thank you pebblemum - especially the [[hug]] - same back to you!! Sounds like our LO's are quite similar - Truly appreciate the support. Actually looking forward to going back to work now, am I mad!!!???

I dont think you are mad. I have always said I wouldnt go to work until DS2 was at school but that seems a long way off at the moment I have just joined a local gym just so I have an excuse to have half hour to myself three times a week. While i am there dh has to cope with the screaming but funnily enough DS2 seems to behave for him.

I know it sounds really horrible but sometimes when DS2 is having his tantrums I resent being a stay at home mum, I love him to bits but sometimes it feels too much. Nothing I say I do seems to make a difference and being at home makes it worse as there is no escape from it. I dont remember DS1 being like this although he was all together a totally different child. He has always been relaxed, happy and loves his sleep although he also loves his early mornings. DS1 has only just started laying in until 7.30 and he is almost 9

Hopefully you will find that DD2 is different to DD1 when it comes to naps etc. I know its not much help now but it may be a light at the end of a very long tunnel. At the moment I am getting through every day with the thought that these tantrums etc cant go on forever and one day DS2 will finally realise that sleep isnt that bad after all. well thats the theory anyway

cd sounds really hard. My ds is similar age - 2y 3m. he's sort of dropping his daytime nap now. Some days he will, some days he won't.

Reading your post I just felt really frustrated & sorry for you. I have the exact same some days with him. i just play it by ear, eg yesterday he seemed not too tired, so I didn't bother putting him down. On Sunday tho he seemed very tired, but would not go down, screamed & screamed like you've described. Basically what I did was after a while I gave up, but he carried on being so bad tempered etc so I tried a bit later putting him down. 3rd attempt he screamed for 5 - 10 minutes but then dropped off & had long sleep.

So - mybe you could try a 2nd or 3rd attempt? It is a bit off a faff, but at least the nap happens (eventually) and after the sleep mood usually vastly improved.

6.15 bed sounds very early. I never put ds down before 7 (sometimes bang on if he's very tired & grumpy).

you've got a lot on at the moment - nap getting dropped, nap resistance, 9 month old, early starts. It will get a lot better & sooner than you think (right now I bet it feels never-ending). Hang in there

HI CD!

Don't visit this thread very often, but just found your post. My ds1 was very similar - he would scream for eternity if put into his cot, however tired he was. If snuggling and reading together in a darkened room doesn't settle her (it didn't for us either, though my neighbour always managed it with hers, somehow) then I used Disney videos. He watched his first at 2 yrs and was entranced. 1.5 hrs of sitting still enabled him to be less grotty afterwards. I know that some don't approve of using telly this way, but it kept us sane. (At 6 he's just learning to relax without telly, now that he is learning to read, so I don't think I've turned him into a lifelong TV addict, but it has remained a great way of getting my very active little boy to stop for a while.) Oh, and I went back to work 2 days/week too, to keep myself sane! Hadn't meant to, but he appreciated the extra company at nursery and I got some energy back.

Hope that today is much better for you.

Hi Captain Dippy - my dd aged 2.6 has started to drop her afternoon nap too. She and her little sis aged 14months would both have 2 hours solid every afternoon then bed at 7 to 7.30.

About a month ago my dd started to resist nap times and then was harder to settle at bedtime. So, now when she is good tempered and busy playing she doesn't go down for a nap but, on days when she goes swimming or to gymnastics I encourage her to lay down in her bed with the curtains closed - I tell her she doesn't have to sleep its just rest time (she will always fall asleep!).

Some days when she is grotty and tired she sounds just like your dd - she throws herself about, she doesn't really know what it is that she wants, is whingy and generally does my head in.

I don't really know what to suggest to you - I just want you to know that I'm finding it hard too - the hard'est thing of all is loosing my couple of hours to prepare dinner or to iron or to sit down and read the paper.

Good Luck to you - you know that at this age things seem to pass quickly so hang on in there xx

Hi Captain Dippy. Only just found your thread again. How's it going? Any improvement? Or are you still in thrashing and screaming hell? Sending you calm, chilled vibes (though could do with a few myself!)

Thanks for more messages, just a quick update ....

Today is going better for me - sort of - Well DH and I finally relented and put the side back on DD1's cot. She slept ok last night, although she woke up at 6am and wouldn't settle - I put her down at 10am today (the time her nap used to be) and she went straight to sleep and is still asleep now. I have mixed emotions. I was sort of getting used to the fact that she no longer had daytime sleeps and had rediscovered some nice morning time toddlers group etc - I don't know if this is going to be a one off or whether the side back on the cot means we're going back to daytime naps. I am pleased that she is sleeping cos she was getting unbearable to be with during the day; but I feel disappointed at the same time cos we'd just got her into a bed and I feel like we are going backwards. Does that make any sense??? I just feel all "is it, isn't it!!!?" I just want to know if this is back to morning sleeps or what. I hope I can remain calm and that some sort of routine would be made apparent soon - Sorry for waffling, just wanted to outpour!

What do you think? I feel stuck in a dilemma - Argh!!

captain dippy, glad to hear you've found a way to get her to sleep. My opinion is that you have done exactly the right thing and DON'T worry that it is back in a cot - she is only two! There is plenty of time to get her in a bed; my DS would have been in a cot till at least three years old but is very tall for age so literally grew out of his cot - but i think personally a two year old is fine in a cot and she obviously needs it, as she is now asleep in it rather than screaming!

I know what you mean about having just started a morning routine of groups etc, and I wondered if you could make her daytime nap a bit later (if it stays nice and regular). With my DS he used to have his nap after lunch at 12noon, so we could go out in the morning. It was a lovely routine, we had our morning out, then lunch at 11.30am, then nap (he always slept better on a full tummy!) from 12ish. He was re-charged ready for the afternoon.

May not fit in with you as I know you said sometimes she got beyond it even before you had time to get to 'quiet' time, but maybe if you make it ten mins later every day, you could get a later nap??

Hurray! Glad she's sleeping today, CD - what a relief for you! Just out of interest, how did she react when you took the side off the cot originally (I'm assuming it's a cot bed)? Only ask cos I know some toddlers get extremely attached to their cot and get really upset if it's changed in any way. Might be an easier transition if you actually got a junior bed (not now, of course, but when you're all ready to try again). Just a thought...

Thank you for you posts sparklemagic and juliab - You encouraged me not to feel bad in my decision sparkle and I really appreciate that - You said just what I needed to hear right now - and you are absolutely right, I should try for a "go to nice group in the morning, early lunch, bed for a couple of hours about 12 - 2 to recharge for the afternoon - Sounds kind of idyllic though, not sure if I'll actually be able to implement it (esp with DD2 in tow), but I'll give it a go - Provided that this wasn't just a one off today and she is actually going to go back to daytime sleeps now - Who knows!!? (Will keep you posted!!) Thank you again - you said some great stuff!!

To answer your question juliab - She was absolutely fine when we took the side off of her cot. No problem at all - In fact, she seemed to rather like it. We used to leave the stairgate on the nursery door open when we went to bed and she used to pad up the stairs to see us in the morning, it was lovely and I'll defintely miss that!! Junior bed might be the way to go next time ......

I'll keep posting - just keep encouraging - I need it!!

xxxx

yes keep in touch captain and let us know how it goes!

CaptainDippy, I understand what you're going through because I went through it with my Ds1. Ds2 is still sleeping two hours in the afternoon and it's bliss. When Ds1 stopped wanting a sleep I would still put him in his bed in an afternoon with the TV on. He's watch perhaps and hour and then play with his toys and it was a break for me as well as for him. He was slightly older, maybe three. The key has got to be some time out for you. Set some quiet time where you can switch off.

I would second that. Strategic use of television is a godsend.