Has spoken, but month-to-month 26 month old daughter doesn't say a word.

[Thomisa]

Hi there,

I've just joined Mumsnet, hoping you can help me and I can perhaps offer some advice to others as well...

My daughter is 2 years 2 months and not talking. I've been reading through lots of not talking posts, but can't seem to find anything quite the same.

In the past year she has said her name once (3 syllables at 13 months), mumma, dadda, Thomas (her brother), cat, look and mine. She'll say them once and then that'll be it. She's also said about 5 sentences, which have been pretty clear: "I don't want that", "What's under there?" for example. Every time she says something she kind of hides her head and goes all shy. We don't make a big deal out of her not talking, but the other day my mum said to her "where's your lovely voice?" and she smiled and put her hand over my mum's mouth.

At toddler group she happily runs off and plays but at singing time she always sits on my lap and refuses to sit on the carpet with the other children.

She makes many babbling noises all day - to me, her dad, brother, her dolls. If she wants something she points or drags me to whatever it is. The only time she makes an effort to say something is when she wants a biscuit. This is when I wonder if she has a hearing problem as I'll say "biscuit" and she'll try really hard but say "muh, muh". I wonder why she doesn't say "buh" even. Then I think back to the things she has said and they were understandable, so then I think her hearing must be OK!

She's very happy, chatty (in her way), sociable and bright. I'm really worried her not talking will mean she's left behind. I know her older brother (4 years) talks for her, but he's not always there. Sometimes she gets so frustrated I just wonder why she doesn't say what she wants!

It's also hard, because I know I shouldn't compare my kids, but my son spoke at 14 months and we were having full conversations before the age of 2, which I know is very early, but seeing as I've done everything the same, I just wonder why things are so different?

Sorry for the long post, but I guess what I'm asking is do you think it's a shyness thing? Or anxiety or something? Have spoken to health visitor but they say not to worry until 2.6 then I read in other places that's way too late. What can we do to help her? My husband has never heard her talk and if it wasn't for my mum hearing her as well, I think I'd doubt it myself!

Thank you,
Vic

I'm so sorry you're worried and hopefully someone helpful will be along to comment soon. But your post - particularly about the clear sentences you mentioned - just reminded me of the story about Albert Einstein...

As he was a late talker his parents were worried. At last, at the supper table one night, he broke his silence to say, "The soup is too hot."
Greatly relieved, his parents asked why he had never said a word before.
Albert replied, "Because up to now everything was in order."

Apparently it is not uncommon in bright chidren.

Pressuring her is the one thing that won't work. :)

You sound like me a while ago! Really, this time next year you will feel very differently. My ds didn't say a single word, apart from woo woo (train) until he hit two and a half, then suddenly took off. In the space of 4 months he is now speaking in sentences.

Thanks very much for replying everyone.

SummerExhibition, it's just helpful to have someone understand! I had heard Einstein was a late talker...

AdventuresWithWolves, you're right. I don't think we do pressure her. Now and again we'll ask if she wants to talk but most of the time I just say "well done" for whatever noise she does make or "that's right" if she points to a picture and says something.

ThatDoIIPig, good to hear from someone who was in the same position. Glad your son's now chatting away!

Thanks again

Sorry, got your name wrong ThatIIDoPig!

Oh dear and again..!

I owuld ask to be referred to speech and language services, and have her hearing checked.

both of these things can take some time to come around (in some areas, the waiting list for SALT is up to a year) so you can always cancel if everything comes right before the appointment comes up, but it is better (imo) to be in the system early on, as you will have to wait a long time to be seen.

there will always be anecdotes about late talkers, and obviously in some cases it can all come right. but not always, and (again, imo) it is better to get things checked out, so that help can be put in place if needed.

in general, how is her understanding? does she communicate in other ways, or leave it to her brother/you to get thigns for her. does she show things to you, and share them with you?

the health visitor is wrong - there is no way you shold be being fobbed off until 2.6. iirc, the average child should have about 50 words by 2 years old, and be using them frequently and picking up new ones with ease. any deviation form that should be referred on.

Absolutely what silver frog said. Could be just a late one, but I would defy get hearing checked and salt in place, the apps take ages to come around, and if there is a problem you want to be starting to fix it at the earliest opportunity. My son didn't speak until he was almost three, he had had hearing and other issues which impacted that, plus an older sibling who spoke for him. Maybe check glue ear too, as that can be intermittent and account for hearing then not hearing bouts iykwim.

I think language development is helped if you can speak directly to the child as much as possible, so that's probably the best thing you can do if you can't get a referral at the moment. The other thing you could do is go via the GP instead of the health visitor.

the BabyTalk book, by Sally Ward is very good for ideas on how a child should be communicating at any given age (babies/toddlers).

otherwise, the Hanen books (It Takes Two to Talk, and More Than Words) are also very useful, but are expensive (Winslow catalogue usually has them cheapest, I think)

"Apparently it is not uncommon in bright chidren." Perhaps it's not uncommon, but trust me I've had two of these children and it's not unproblematic for the children either. If you've never spoken, then you speak at 3, you've missed out on up to 18 months of communication practice.

I would ask for a hearing test because if you go back at 2.6 your health visitor will say brightly "let's have a hearing test!" and before you know it she will be 3.

I would buy the book "It Takes Two to Talk" (www.winslow.com). It's as expensive as a pair of nice boots ..... I promise it will not freak you out or use labels or scary jargon. It can be shown to all family members and left on the coffee table. I'd also ask for a hearing test to be done now.

Right now you don't know whether this is happening because
she can't hear well yet or
she isn't yet listening well yet or
she listens but doesn't understand well yet or
she does those things but can't formulate a response in her head yet or
she knows what she wants to say but can't get her mouth muscles to do it for her yet or
she can do all those things but somehow it's all making her anxious

It's one or more of those things - this isn't rocket science.
The It Takes Two book won't tell you where the problem is but it will help you improve and refine your own techniques dramatically, (no more "where's your nice voice?" remarks - show the book to your mum) and then your observations will get more informed. Then either all will fade away or you will have a really clear idea of what's going on if you do have to follow up. good luck

If you do want to get a referral pushed through then emphasise that she has lost words or had regression of speech - hopefully it will make them pay a bit more attention. It will still take time to get appointments but if you are dealing with a hv who does not even want to think about referring or doing anything until 2.6 then that is quite late and i doubt she would be seen before 3. Personally i would push for it, as better safe than sorry

My son lost words too. He had quite a few he said only once or twice but never again, those were all before about 16, 17 months. never said any sentences like yours though! but since then he has never said those words again and still doesnt talk now at 2 and half, apart from a few words that all sound nearly the same, and he does babble.

If hv doesnt want to bother getting the hearing test done yet, maybe ask for it through gp, so it can be done sooner than later

I agree with Lingle - yes your dd may just be a late talker but it is best to try and get a SALT referral on the go now just in case there are other issues at play.
It does sound like shyness but it is also holding her back as she is not getting speech practice. If you think her understanding of speech is ok then that is a positive.
It takes Two to talk is a great, thorough book - it's about £30 I think so not that expensive in the grand scheme of things and will give you loads of tips to encourage speech with your daughter - also, just as importantly, what not to say/do.
You can sell them book afterwards too for about £20 as they do hold their value.
My son was similar at 2.6 and I was told, he's late talker etc , however, at 3.6 was diagnosed with selective mutism! (basically he would not talk outside the home)(I am not saying this will be the case for your daughter)
He is now just 5 and will speak in class etc although he didn't talk at all in nursery.
But his speech is a good 18 months behind his peers as he wasn't getting the practice.
I am confident he will get there in the end but I do wish I had taken action earlier than I did.

Some really helpful advice, thanks.

She definitely understands everything and yes, shares things with us. She talks to her dolls and acts just like their mum - feeding them, changing, putting to bed etc. She interacts with us loads, it's just like we're having a conversation but in different languages! I've always read to both my kids since the day they were born. Same with talking and singing.

I actually saw the GP yesterday and he said he'll leave a message for the hv to call me again. I'm hoping that because it's come through the GP they may listen a bit more, but I'll also use the term 'regression'. I'm not going to let it go this time. I last spoke to them at about 23 months.

I'll definitely look up those books, thanks for mentioning them.

There's no way I want to wait months for this to be sorted. I'm thinking of seeing someone privately but I'm not sure if it would be a speech and language therapist as her words have been clear. Maybe a psychotherapist?

Thanks all.

i would second the suggestion to get a hearing test.

my fil only started talking at 3 and then talked in sentences straight away. it seems that he was working out sentence structures - according to mil anyway

your dd sounds lovely, and on the one hand it's probably good to not get stressed about it but at the same time don't let the gp / hv fob you off. they should get her checked out.

Speech and Lang therapists a not just about the spoken word and how clear it is. It's also communication, verbal and non verbal, eye contact etc etc. I think that's your starting point. Not sure what benefit a psychotherapist would be. You could get referred for paed assessment, not sure if they would do clinical psycologist at this point, but you could do that privately if you wanted to

DS is 2 years 3 months, and has only recently started talking. He had a few words at about 15 months, but never really used them.

I took him to the GP last year, who immediately said that she would refer him to the SALT team and arrange a hearing test. It wasn't that she was particuarly worried; she just said that it's better to be on the safe side, and that there was no point waiting around longer than necessary. He was about 20 months at the time.

DS was seen for assessment within a few months, by which time he had started using a few words again. I was told he had a slight speech delay, and he was referred to a local group. We have now been to a couple of sessions, and although he is still a bit behind his peers, he is progressing.

While I was waiting for the referal, I found a local weekly drop-in Surestart toddler group that had a Speech Therapist (as well as a HV). She was really helpful and gave me lots of advice and booklets, and worked with DS informally too. Maybe there is something like that near you. She also pointed me in the direction of this website. It has some of the info that the I was given:

www.talkingpoint.org.uk

Thanks for your replies and sharing all your stories. Made me realise I'm not alone! I'll have a look at the website, ta.

Minceorotherwise, I guess I was thinking a psychotherapist as I thought it could be more a shyness/anxiety issue, but I think you're right, SALT is the place to start.