sleepless 6 year old - what could a GP offer?

[ArcticLemming]

My DD is 6 and just cannot seem to go to sleep at night. This has been going on on and off for about years, but has got worse over the last few months. She has a good bedtime routine and settles down for sleep about 8pm. She then just lies there until about 9.30-10pm each night. She is then really tired next morning and it's really affecting her life - she's irritable and tearful, and her teacher has commented on how tired she is in school. I feel she's really disadvantaged and the tiredness affecting all aspects of her life - school work, friendships, behaviour.

We've tried / have in place:
Good curtains
milky drink / camomile tea
relaxation CD / story / music
No sugary foods of an evening (she very rarely has any food with artificial sweetners / additives)
cranial osteopathy
Supplementing with zinc / magnesium and omega oils
no screen time in the evening
She's not too hot, cold or hungry

She is very healthy, takes plenty of exercise and has a good appetite and varied diet.
I'm at the end of my teather as it's making her so miserable. I think she finds it hard to wind down - she's quite "hyper" and finds some aspects of school stressful.
I'm thinking of taking her to the GP, and to be honest would no consider melatonin if it was offered. Do they presribe this for NT kids in the UK? Does anyone have any other ideas? I'll try pretty much anything!

My 9 year old DD is exactly like this and has been for some time. We may have finally cracked it though. We have managed to establish she is a bit of a fidget and that seems to stop her falling asleep. DH and I now take it in turns to sit in her room until she falls asleep. With us in the room she seems to be able to nod off, I'm not sure why but as a result we have a different little girl. Eventually, once this has become a habit, we're hoping she will be able to fall asleep alone.

Hi Kellamity - have tried this too with little success! It's a pain isn't it as it really negatively affects their life.

How are her emotions? Is she quite introverted, or lets her emotions and feelings out easily? Does she talk to you about any of her worries openly?
I know already two children (one case was here: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/parenting/a1478912-Have-just-really-lost-my-temper-with-DS1 -- note the last few entries ) who had very strange fears about sleeping which led to sleeplessness. It may be completely not the case with your daughter but it might be worth considering and trying to listen to her thoughts on this without ridiculing or belittling those possible fears.

Also, children who get wound up by the evening are often helped if they are allowed to cry and rage as by the evening they tend to be more emotional. If they can freely let go of those feelings, in your supportive presence, they wind down and sleep well. In case you have banned that before, you may want to learn to allow your child express emotions. I have to say it has massively helped with my DS1 who tended to wriggle in bed for ever. Nowadays (he's 5.5) since we have learned to accept his emotions and allow him to express them whilst being supportive and listening to his protests or expressions of anger, disappointment, sadness etc he just drops off as soon as his head hits the pillow.

GPs can't prescribe melatonin, it has to be prescribed by a hospital consultant. Maybe worth asking for a referral though if it is causing real problems for you all.

Have you spoken to a child psycologist? Or behavior specialist? Maybe there's some underlying problem
On her mind that's keeping her awake and at six she might not fully realize it :(

although I'm not sure if they will do that since she is NT. GP visit a good idea though!

We also tried this work book to try and develop good sleeping habits. It worked a bit, might be worth a look?

Mayamama. I think she bottles things up at school. She does have tantrums / gets angry sometimes at home and I'm trying to get her to express her emotions in a more acceptable way. I do get her to try and talk about what she's feeling before she goes to bed and she will - I certainly don't think she frightened of sleeping or going to sleep. She certainly does get frustrated and is quite sensitive, but I'm not sure which way round it is - she doesn't sleep because she's frustrated and sensitive, or she's sensitive and frustrated because she hasn't had enought sleep.

it's so hard for both of you.

hav eyou asked your shcool nurse?
try an earlier bed time?
or a GP might well know of somewhere to help and/or prescribe Melatonin

Sorry cross posts - didn't see other poster's comments. Kellamity - the workbook looks interesting - I'll get it as I think she would like to feel we're trying to do something constructive about it. Have thought about a child / behavioural pychologist but am a bit wary as don't want to pathologise her - she's quite sensitive. However, if things don't improve may need to think again.

Thanks for all the responses. We've tried earlier bedtime (and a bit later) - neither help.
The school nurse has only seen her once - I think she covers a lot of schools. I think ~I'll try GP, although don't feel very hopeful. Have sounded out a few GP friends on the issue and they didn't really have any suggestions.

Hmm, worth assuming she cannot sleep because she is sensitive and perhaps "bottles up". If you assume it is the other way around, you will not allow yourself to look any further and keep dealing with something which may be a symptom rather than a cause.

Perhaps it is also worth trying to accept her tantrums? Do check out the website of the parenting advisor and psychologist Aletha Solter specifically on tantrums www.awareparenting.com/tantrums.htm -- and her book "Tears and tantrums" might also be of help. I believe as parents we need to do everything (i.e try to understand reasons and find solutions) before resorting to drugs. It is difficult though, isn't it.... :S

Good luck!

We tried GP with dd1. He said they would generally (in this area) try counselling first to see if there was something worrying them. However he suggested a dose of piriton to try.

It worked very well the first time I think because I misread the bottle and double dosed her . But that was actually good because she then thinks it helps brilliantly and I only have to give her a little and she relaxes and sleeps. She doesn't have it much, perhaps twice a month, but it gets her out of it forming a bad habit.

GPs can prescribe Melatonin. Ours prescribes for my DDs but CAMHS requested it for DD1 and the community paed asked them to do it for DD2.

The community paed told me that children with ASD have naturally lower levels of melatonin in their system which means that supplementing it is helpful. She won't prescribe it for NT children because their levels are already high enough so it doesn't help much. Also there are long term effects of having higher levels of melatonin in your system so you wouldn't want to top up a child whose levels were already normal.

I think that you'll struggle to get it if your DD is definitely NT.

Have you looked into girls with Aspergers? If you Google Tony Attwood and listen to some of his interviews you may find that it rings bells for you in terms of her school anxieties and sensitivities. If it turns out she has some ASD traits you may find that melatonin is appropriate after all.

DeWe thanks. Timandra - a while ago I did consider very mild aspergers / ADHD (with female type symptoms) and looked at tony Attwood but feel the traits have diminished over time. She now fits in well socially. She does have a bit of trouble concentrating but again that has improved.

She's started writing a diary each day and I think I may encourage her to try writing about what she feels rather than what she's done in case she find taht a bit easier.

perhaps you could check her iron levels, as this may b the cause of her tiredness.?

In that case you'll probably find something like the Piriton suggested by DeWe works better as her melatonin levels are probably normal.

Timandra, yes, GPs can prescribe it but the initial decision to prescribe has to come from the hospital consultant or CAMHS :)

She sounds VERY like my DD1 (now 7) who also has terrible trouble getting to sleep and is also very emotional / angry/ tantrum prone but perversely also unbelievably sensitive. We tried everything from homeopathic drops to relaxation CDs. Absolutely nothing worked, some children just don't need as much sleep as others. She would run around for hours and cause havoc and keep DD2 and DS awake, until we were all exhausted, angry and shouty. What I would say to you is that hopefully you are nearing the end of the worst. All of our lives were transformed when she learnt to read proper books. You say she writes a diary - so presumably she can read fairly well too?

Since DD1 was 6 we changed bedtime routines so that she goes up later (I take younger siblings up at 6.30 ish so they are in bed by 7 / 7.15) and she uses the quiet time downstairs on her own to do homework / piano practice etc, or just potter around quietly. At 8pm I send her upstairs and she basically puts herself to bed (fine in bath / shower on her own I just keep a bit of an ear out to check she is OK). Then she reads, she is now such a book worm and so much happier. I just have to commit to weekly trips to the library. Interestingly she now tends to go to sleep earlier - I try and turn lights out at 9pm and she is usually asleep by 9.30 - whereas before it was often more like 10 or 11pm, reading clearly relaxes and tires her. With my DD we started soon after she had turned 6 with those ghastly rainbow fairies books (endless series of them), I can't recommend them highly enough as a tool for getting girls going on the reading as they are formulaic and easy. I would read a chapter but get her to read the last paragraph, to me, then I would make her read a page, then I would say I would start from the next page the following night so she had to read it on her own. In no time she was finishing the books on her own. It was sort of a learning process not just for helping her reading skills - but in teaching her 'how' to read novels, by which I mean the anticipation of the time on her own to read the next chapter, the enjoyment of preparing yourself, getting comfortable with all your needs met and settling down into it. She really enjoyed the extra time I spent with her in the beginning helping her. Even now I try and read to her a couple of times a week - she will tell me where she is in a book and i will read the next chapter.