DD gets very angry and hates to be told she can't do things, she's 7, any helpful advice, please?

[Italiangreyhound]

Hi, any advice for me, please? My dd is 7 and sometimes gets very angry when told she can't do things. She is fine when we are out, she behaves well at school and is a perfect angel for others who look after occasionally - like friends when she goes to her friends' houses. At home with me and my DH (her dad) she is very loving etc but often finds it so hard to be told 'no' or to not get her own way. She is our only child and I expect it might sound like we spoil her, but I don't think we do. She gets plenty of fun experiences (going for walks and to the beach etc) and occasional treats (sweets or magazines etc) but NOT endless expensive toys or fancy clothes.

Anyway, I am getting tired of her being rude to me, trying to scratch my arm and saying mean things when she does not get her own way. I have tried to be strict! We use time out, she gets TV or sweets stopped or pocket money taken away, all of which she hates. She loves TV and I limit that, specially as a punishment. BUT I really want to understand where the anger comes from and how to help her to channel her feelings effectively rather than simply policing her bahaviour all the time!

She has been very well loved and cared for, no terrible big experiences or childhood illnesses or separations. The only area that is a struggle is that she finds school a bit hard, still struggles to read and write, although she has friends at school, loves art, has fun and currently has wonderful teachers. She is physically fit and healthy and as far as I know has no food allergies or anything else like that.

Any personal experiences of overcoming anger in children, any links to helpful websites or useful ways of how to deal with anger would be very gratefully received, please.

Over praise the good, focus on all the good stuff and totally ignore all the bad. Also say and do what you mean. She's kicking off at the park, tell her once stop, the warn he that is she does not stop she will be taken home. And do it, take her home. Actions speak louder than words and you need to always follow through and she will soon get the idea. Consistency is they key. I think we all forget that we need to tell and show our children that when they are well behaved and co-operative we see it and acknowledge it.

So what she hates having sweets/TV/pocket momney taken away, that's the point, I hear a little guilt from you creeping in maybe? It is hard to be the bad guy but you just have to sometimes. Being great outside the home and a pain at home is normal, you take out you anger and frustrations on those you love the most. Sounds like to me she does not really think you mean it, you don't have to be shouty cross Mum just stand firm Mum.

Is she getting enough to eat and drink at school? DS1 now 10 went through a phase of drinking bugger all at school and would come out in the foulest of moods!

Maybe have some play dates with her friends at home so she can see how others act and behave.

Let her have a bit more freedome, don't police her every move and come down on her hard all the time, might light of some things and have some fun together.

Google the hand in hand parenting website - its great for exactly what you want - getting to the root cause of your child's emotions and learning to deal with them effectively

Our 6yr Oldonly dd can be similar. I think being alone with your parents can be very intense for a child. They don't have siblings to squabble with so you get the brunt of their feelings. Boundaries get blurred because its not parents and children but the 3 of you. I find she's less tense and cross when she's had some time to herself or some positive experiences e.g. did,well on,swimming lesson. No advice as I need to get some myself.

Thanks carocaro, Paranoid and puffberto. I am very grateful for all advice.

Today has been a lovely day and she has been very well behaved.

I agree that it is intense with just one child. We have tried for over 6 years to give her a sibling.

Maybe there is guilt involved in telling her off but I do try and be consistent.

She is rarely naughty away from home, so the option to just come home is not there, we are already at home.

Will check out the hand in hand parenting website. Thanks again.

Paranoid the hand in hand site is brilliant. Just read this and loved it.

www.handinhandparenting.org/news/197/64/When-Your-Child-Screams-I-Hate-You

THANK you so much.

My DD 6yrs old ( although not an only child) is also like this :-( I'm beginning to wonder what iv done wrong.
She is fine at school but is so rude to me , and needs regular reminding of what is acceptable behaviour.
She honestly does think she knows better.
I'm off to see if I can get any help from the website mentioned.

Nanny yes, the website does look helpful.

At times I do find DD's behaviour very hard to cope with.

We have a school worker who is linked to the GP surgery and we have contacted her and spoken to her in our home twice. She says DD is normal and we are doing a great job! She also runs a family SEAL group at school....

"The Social and Emotional Aspects of Learning (SEAL) programme has been developed in England to enhance social and emotional competence and well-being in schools. As part of the SEAL programme, Family SEAL seeks to engage parents as partners in this process."

This may or may not be available in your area, you may also find that some groups like Family centre or churches run parenting courses (we have done two!).

For years I just tried to be strict, to be consistent, to have lots of ways of trying to control her, but in the end I began to feel that she was expressing a lot of emotion. She really does love me a lot and that is why she is able to express the anger at home and with me and DH and not at school.

My DD does also think she knows best and does not understand why she can't be in charge of herself at times. She often tells me she will leave home, which was heart breaking at times. In fits of anger she once went to the door to leave and even once tried to lock me out of the house!

I am working through all this and hope that as she gets older it will get easier but to be honest it has not yet! Still I love her to bits and I know she loves me. She is creative, affectionate and full of life. She is the apple of the eye and also at times a thorn in my side. Parenting is not always easy but I love it.

Italian thankyou for your lovely post and suggestions.
I really have not known where to turn - over the past week I have wondered about asking for a referral to a paediatrician as I'm finding it hard to cope.
I have been googling Hyperactivity and wondering if she is hyperactive - but she is absolutely fine at school , calm quiet and progressing well.
At home I find her very challenging, and we have tried everything .
I really want help but don't want her labelling with any type of disorder , and I'm reluctant to have her seen by Child mental health services as what ever notes they keep about her will stay in her medical notes for the rest of her life .
I feel very torn.

I know how you feel. I guess for me the schools worker was a kind of half way house between a medical person and a teacher, we were refered to her through our health visitor, who i had stayed friendly with ever since DD was about 3, she was just over 5 and a half when we were refereed and is 7 and a half now.

I know how you feel, I guess it is just a matter of seeing what would be best for her. If there really is a problem I am sure you would want help with it. I've wondered about ADHD and hyper activity myself but DD can sit very still at times too!

At one time I wondered about Oppositional Defiant Disorder.

www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=565

But my dd gets on fine at school, and has friends and is not always defiant, she can be compliant, it comes and goes but there are times when she just gets into such a rage. I really think this last week was a turning point when I realised it was not a case of just doing the same old 'be consistant'/give punishments etc. That there was more going on in her little brain. Although she was angry, she was upset, she wanted to hug me and wanted to cry but also wanted to shout.

I do think having others to talk to really helps. One of best friends has a son of the same age who has just been diagnosed with aspergers. His behaviour has been quite challanging and it is helpful to me (and I hope to her) to talk together as we both understand some of what the other is going through. Although my DD has no diagnosis or recognised condition (which i am thankful for at the moment) at least my friend can look on the internet and get help from others! Which is in a way what I am trying to do now!

All best wishes, continue to post if it helps and let me know how you get on, or PM me. I do think help of some sort would be good but it is hard if she is well behaved at school it is hard to explain how things are at home.

PS You don;t need to be friends with your health visitor to get help! Lots of people think she or he is only there for babies but they have some responsibility for families and ours included behaviour issues and even counselling for parents in her remit.

Thanks so much Italian I may well be in touch.
I think I will get back in touch with the HV - she is an absolutely wonderful lady who knows our family well.
Our experiences do sound quite similar - DD is very emotional , sensitive and complex really.
I too wish you lots of luck and would really like to take you up on the PM. I'm really floundering at the minute.

7 year olds are not usually diagnosed with ODD. It's usually teens, after a pattern of behaviour lasting many years.

You daughter just sounds like a strong minded and willfull child - there's nothing wrong with that, it's just a case of sticking with strategies that work - being consistent - and just keeping on going!

A tactic that I've found really effective is offering a 'small' choice while you make the big decision e.g. "Right DD we are going to brush your hair now (no choice about that)....would you like it in a pony tail or down (small choice offered)"...so she feels that she can exert some control but it is you that is in overall control, if that makes sense.

I would like to make two observations.

Firstly, its is really hard work for a 7 year old to be good and well behaved at school, compliant with friends, and a perfect angel with others. She probaby needs to come home and let off a little steam with those who she loves and trusts the most. just rembember how you feel if you've had a really shitty day at work. You possibly need to cut a little slack and give loads of tlc.

I also have an only DD who at that age insisted on doing things her own way and on her own, but was hampered by her lack of skills, knowledge and often got very frustrated. But this is a core personality trait - its who they are and will be invaluable to them as an adult. She also HATES being controlled. Now she's older she's blossomed and does well at school as she's now at the age where they expect them to think for themselves. She finds herself offering ideas and advice to other pupils who can't think of anything.

It is was me, I would try not to be too strict, let her do her own thing as much as possible. She sounds intelligent and driven. I would be strict about rudeness etc, but I wouldn't punish, if i thought other things were done in the grip of high emotion.

Hope you can make sense of this and its not an incomprehensible ramble.

Yes selks it makes sense and we do that a lot.

Every day we make lots of choices and we do have lots of fun, she is not a problem all the time.

It is just when she is, when she says 'I hate you' and 'I want to die' and 'I'll just leave them' that it is so hurtful. She lies a lot and says she has done stuff when she has not, (cleaning teeth etc - she thinks she has done them if she sticks some toothpaste in her mouth!) and she also says things like 'You hit me' etc, when I have not! Very embarressing when she says it loudly in the garden!

In some ways life gets easier but the big blow ups are always there. We have only had about half a dozen major ones but lots of little ones.

Thanks so much for your help.

Italiangreyhound your post rang a bell with me. My dd1 is now 15, but from when she was around 2 until about the age of 11 she was often a very angry little girl. (she isn't an only child btw)

With the benefit of hindsight, I now see that what she was angry about was not being able to be in control of things in her life.

As soon as she got to an age where she was able to be more independent, and in control of (more of, and now most of) the choices made about her life, and her day to day activities, she calmed down a lot. So I had the opposite of a lot of parents' experience; 'teenage' style behaviour from 2-11 and much calmer and nicer from 11 on.

Don't get me wrong, she still has her moments, and they are usually linked to someone else telling her what to do. So if I say "come on now, it must be bedtime" & she was just about to go anyway, she refuses to go until she chooses and will stay up for another 10 minutes so she is making the decision. It's laughable really. She also can get really angry with dd2 when dd2 (deliberately) winds her up - but then, I know that's normal!

On the whole, though, she is a calm, compliant, hard working, focused and driven girl who is a pleasure. I honestly never thought I'd see the day I'd be able to say that when we were in the middle of her tantrums and rages.

I posted about her on here many times when she was younger - from when she was about 4 in fact, as I joined MN in 2001 (eek!). I was under a different name then, and don't want to put it in this post as both dd's know my previous posting name, and I don't want them to link it to this one, or I'll never be able to post anything personal ever again!. If you are interested in reading what I posted, and some of the suggestions I had, please feel free to PM me, and I'll happily give you my previous name.

dontagreewithit thank you so much, I am very pleased to hear your comments. I would love to PM you but no idea how to do it. I have only ever replied to people who PM me!! So please just send me a word and i will reply.

I have also come to the conclusion that a lot of DD's anger is actually frustration at not being in charge of herself. She often asks why she can't make her own decisions and why she needs to do what she is told. I have admiration for my dd as I feel when she is older she will not be swayed, she will do her own thing and stand up or herself. But for now it is hard. Our current battle is when can she try chewing gum and bubble gum!

Thanks so much.

Sending out a mumsnet hug to Nanny.

Nanny has it it going?

The schools worker things we need some one to one with her, which we will have. If it does not work out that that deals with my daughters frustration and anger issues, then the next step is some more help. I live in Oxfrdshire so we are talking Primary Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service (PCAMHS).

www.oxfordhealth.nhs.uk/?service_description=primary-child-and-mental-health-service

Although it is scary to think of this I am afraid I feel we must go down this route. The idea is "The aim is to see and treat more children at an earlier stage to nip in the bud problems..."

It also says "Specially trained professionals from a range of backgrounds, including occupational therapists, play specialists and mental health workers, work via the PCAMHS service in the community through courses of up to six one-to-one therapy sessions."

I wonder if there is anything in your area. You could find out all the info from internet before talking to health visitor, so at least you would know what was on offer.

Today DD is upset the snail she put in a box last night has escaped. She blames me and thinks I released him. She is saying he was her best friend (she had named him last night!). She just called me a 'big fat slob' and pulled my hair! I used to get very angry with her and feel it was a reflection on my parenting or on my daughter's 'naughtyness' now I just feel maybe there is an issue there, either anger, frustration or both, and I want so much to get to the bottom or it.

dontagreewithit any word of wisdom, please?

Hi again. Sorry, only just seen you calling for words of wisdom!

Unfortunately I don't have any...but the incident you describe does sound very familiar. Reading your posts has really brought back to me the torture I went through wondering what I was doing wrong, whether I should try and do more for dd etc.

As I've said before, my experience has been that things calmed down a lot once dd was able to have a little more autonomy. However, I realise that's not necessarily much comfort to you right now.

The only thing I know for sure is that remaining calm is the best way - still now, if I respond to anger and shouting with anger and shouting, things get worse and deteriorate very quickly. Dd still does get irrationally angry from time to time, mainly due to PMT...oh joy! I just bite my lip and mainly ignore her outbursts, none of which last long, and she generally takes herself out of my company when I annoy her...which works well for both of us.

Sorry, I think I may be rambling a bit. Keep strong.

dontagreewithit thanks so much. I do now feel less angry and more like I want to help her.

I also realise it does not reflect on me as a parent, it is just how it is, I like that American phase 'it is what it is.'