Help me with my 4yo ds please. I'm in tears right now.

[Atacompleteloss]

Name changed for this as there are some things I'm not proud of.

Basically - I have 3 dcs. ds1 is 5.8, ds2 is 4.4 and ds3 is 8mo. I am really struggling to cope with ds2 at the moment, although really I've struggled for ages.

Bit of background: Ds2 came along when ds1 was only 16mo but he was a dream baby - slept well, hardly cried, very smily etc etc. Then it seemed like almost overnight after his 1st birthday he changed. And ever since then most days have a battle.

Some examples

• he has to be first at everything e.g. going up or down the stairs/walking to school/getting the milk in.
• He adores his baby brother and gives him lots of attention but this very often becomes a bit rough and will involve him e.g. pushing toys right into his face or hugging him much too tightly.
• every single day I collet him from pre-school he gets in a big sulk, often runs off down the road (with me with ds3 in pram).
• bedtimes are almost always a nightmare. He shares with ds1 and we alternate who goes to bed first. Regardless of who goes first when its ds2's turn he's fine until we go to kiss him goodnight in bed. He then starts messing around, gets up and runs around. Laughs right at us.

Some other things:

• He has a speech problem. His vocab and understanding is good but his pronunciation is awful so few adults can understand him well and even fewer children. He is currently on the waiting list for therapy.
• He has no friends really. Every day when after pre-school I ask how his morning was, if he played with anyone. He either says "I didn't play with anyone" or "I don't know their names" (unlikely after going since September). I've arranged a few play dates with mums that I know and sometimes these go well but often they don't. He has never asked me to ask a particular child round to play. (He has been invited to 3 parties all year - 2 where the whole pre-school were invited and 1 was a family we know from church).
• the arrival of ds3 has made no impact at all on his behaviour either positively or negatively.
• apart from the speech thing he has no other developmental issues.

What doesn't help is that ds1 is a pure delight. He is a polite, easy going, funny and friendly boy. He obviously has his moments of bad behaviour and he's not got loads of friends but he has enough - most of which he made on his own at school/pre-school. Ds1 is so patient with ds2 and his demanding ways but now and again he has had enough.

I realised the other day that on any given day I expect ds1 to be good and ds2 to be naughty. Sometimes its the other way round but very very rarely. I know this is becoming self-fulfilling but can't seem to break the cycle.

I try really hard to avoid the confrontations by being calm/letting the little things go/praising good behaviour but then I snap and really shout and occasionally grab him. I know that shouting makes no difference to him, but then nothing does. When he gets in a temper nothing works - no removal of toys, no reward chart, nothing. He just laughs which obviously then makes me madder.

I truly don't know what to do. He can be loving, affectionate and kind but the other side of him is always just about to appear. I am really worried about how he will cope at school, with both the speech problem and his lack of friendships. I also worry about how I will cope one more day with him

Sorry - I know its long. I would really appreciate any advice.

I should think his speech issues are adding hugely because he is having to work hard to be understood. Perhaps I am being biased but my youngest of 4 dc was like this and had delayed speech. It seemed to be her way of getting attention.

I don't have any advice but just wanted to say that my DD goes to Pre-school with a boy who has delayed speech and often gets frustrated and misbehaves as a result.

DD genuinely sees him as her friend, been to each others' birthday parties, and he has other friends too. I suppose what I'm saying is that small children are quite accepting and not to worry as much about that one aspect. His birthday party was great because it made us other parents aware of his needs and when DD says "X was naughty today" I can help her to understand.

Sorry I can't help with the rest, it sounds rough.

It must be hard with three, but can you make sure that you have one-to-one time with both the older boys every now and then? I think the important thing is to make sure that DS2 gets some quality time where you and he can enjoy being together - maybe let him choose what you do (within reason) - in case part of his behaviour is because he feels that he has to play up to attract your attention. But I think it's also really important to acknowledge that DS1 is well-behaved and to give him one-to-one attention too, so that he doesn't feel that DS2 is 'rewarded' for being naughty by getting your focus (even if it's in a negative way - you telling him off).

Why do the boys take turns going to bed first? I would let DS1 stay up half an hour later or so, so that he has the 'privileges' of being the eldest - and again, is rewarded for his positive behaviour.

What do DS2's pre-school staff say about the friendship issue? They might be able to help you identify what is and isn't happening on that front more clearly than just asking your DS.

Thank you for your replies. In some ways I hope it is the frustration of his speech as maybe his behaviour will improve after therapy.

At the moment I am just wishing for September so he's at school for 7 hours a day which is terrible isn't it .

Thanks for the hug - I'm not good about talking about this in RL so I need it!

Sorry IAmSherlocked cross-posted.

Maybe we should stick to ds1 going first, we alternated in the hope that would stop ds2 getting so silly.

We do try to do things with each of them. In fact, as ds2 is home between 12 and 3 he gets more 1-on-1 time but I think he get bored as we're a bit restricted as ds3 will only sleep properly in his cot.

The thing is - we can spend all day lavishing attention and time on ds2, doing things he loves etc and he can flip in a moment and be horrible. He has no concept of thinking 'I've had a lovely day, I'll behave'. He will quite honestly say 'yes mummy I'll be good' and I believe he means it but 60 seconds later some perceived injustice occurs and he's off.

My ds is 4 and for a while I felt just the same. I realised I was being really down on him and it made me really pay attention to the situation, which is exactly what you're doing. It's a hard thing to admit that you find one of your dc difficult.
I have a 7yo and she is a dream. Ds was just born with a different temperament, so the one thing I clung onto was that I hadn't done anything to make him more difficult, it wasn't my fault or a failure. I should say that a big part of my difficulty in dealing with him was PND, quite serious PND at that, that went undiagnosed and untreated. I do feel it affected our bond for a very long time which makes me very :( Equally, it (most probably) isn't his fault either.
Have you had his hearing checked? Apparently that can be a big cause of behavioural problems, I have actually not been concerned about my ds for a good 6 months now, he seems out of his difficult stage, but he's still on the waiting list for a thorough hearing check before he goes to school.
Two points about preschool though. My ds has been going since September too and has only just started to know people's names. Apparently that's very very normal. They don't care who they play with tbh. Have the workers there confirmed that he doesn't play with anyone? Sometimes at the end of a busy day it's just easier for them to say 'nothing' in response to being asked what they've done that day (my 7 yo still does this!)
Also, a big sulk after preschool could be tiredness. I give my ds a snack straightaway and, if I'm honest, bring the buggy for him to sit in on the way home. He'll often sleep. We too have a new sibling (ds 2 who is 10 weeks) and it's made no difference really to ds which has been something of a relief.
My main, and I hope not belittling or patronising, advice would be to just try and be a bit more positive about your ds. I went through a horrible stage when he was about 2 of really not liking him very much. He was difficult, he was exhausting and he was just non stop. I found his behaviour far easier to deal with when I could genuinely say I loved him rather than purely finding him a trial. It's still a giant taboo to talk about these feeligns I think, but I know, from rare candid conversations with my friends that it's far from uncommon to feel this way about a child. What matters is that you care enough to want to help him change these things. Fwiw, reward charts never worked here at home. But as soon as preschool made him a special one, a giant corner was turned. Somehow it seemed more special and grownup to have one there. But it will get better, just keep going

Aw, he's 4...maybe DS 1 was a dream at 4, but plenty of kids aren't- my DS included. And yes, it's so hard not to label them good/naughty etc and realising you are doing this is fab as it means you are looking to stop. My DS didn't really have many friends during nursery year. He went to about 3 parties, like your DS. Now in Reception he has been to 10-20 parties. I lose count. He is invited on play-dates (didn't have them in nursery and he was older one like yours too), and is much more mature generally and sensible. Just want to give you hope- I think quite a few kiddies change a lot from 3-5 and come out the other end of their toddler stuff nearer 5 in many cases.

I think you have to treat the bad behaviour as bad toddler behaviour rather than bad older child behaviour (when you expect them to understand, be reasonable etc etc). So, perhaps you need to work on staying calm yourself but handing out consistent punishment and keeping the boundaries consistent on what you expect from him. My DS was quite a tricky toddler (with me in any case, was always very well behaved at pre-school) and his behaviour probably got to a peak bad patch at 4 and a bit. As I said, it has improved so much now he is 5. So... there is hope!

One other thought. As you say you can get into patterns of negativity. Try to think of some new activities- can be very simple eg playing with lego together/going to a different playground, that you and DS can do together. Having 20 minutes of positive interaction can make all the difference and new things can shift you into different patterns. Focus on DS2 during these times, the baby and/or the older child can take second place for a while at least. Good luck!

The "I didn't play with anyone" is very common answer. I've heard many times people say their child says that only to find they're always with someone and are very popular. Better to ask the preschool teachers if there's anyone he particularly plays with.

Some children have different ideas of what makes a friend. I asked my dd1 (very cautious) at about age 4yo what makes a friend. She said: "You play with something together one day. Then you talk a bit to them. Then you play lots more days with them. Then you're nearly making friends"
DD2 (optomist here) said at the same age. "Well. Maybe they give you a smile when you walk past them, or say hello. Maybe you sit next to them. Then you'll be friends for even. If you play with them then they're one of your best friends".

I would add that dd1 is at least as popular, but doesn't think she is. When we go out she has a constant stream of people coming up to her. Dd2 is the one going up to people.

"I try really hard to avoid the confrontations by being calm/letting the little things go/praising good behaviour but then I snap and really shout and occasionally grab him. "

parenting is hard isn't it? Both my kids had language issues and sometimes we have a bit of a Perfect Peter/Horrid Henry thing going on.

I'm sure you've already read it but reread Siblings Without Rivalry just to help keep your insights about DS2 sharp.

I'm just wondering if it might help to keep a journal. It sounds like you are good at spotting patterns and flashpoints. Tiny little things can help so much - bringing a snack after pre-school (I know you'll have thought of that already but hey ho).

Thank you so much for all your replies, it really helps to hear others have had these frustrations.

Hearing has been tested as part of his speech referral and was fine.
A snack after pre-school is a great idea - not sure why I've never thought of it, even if just for a distraction.
I've started Siblings without Rivalry but will dig it out and start again.
You're very right about being more positive about him. We went to a friends after school today and he was a dream I made a point of sitting him down and saying how well he did and he got a treat. Bedtime was close to going wrong but we both managed to just stay on the right side of losing it....

I need to take each day as it comes I think and not assume the wheels are going to fall off - thanks for all of your comments.

I just wanted to add my comments. First I think you've had some great advice from the other posters. Second, give yourself a break! Children are exhausting and no parent can be on the ball 100% of the time. It sounds like you are doing a fantastic job 90-95% of the time and you are focusing too much on the negatives!

I don't know if it will help, but my ddd3 had speech issues, spoke very late and had to have a lot (and I mean a lot!) of therapy. And while that was going on she was as stubborn as a mule and very frustrated. Now aged 7 she speaks beautifully and is, according to her teachers, absolutely delightful. Dc2 was likewise an attention addict - by that I mean that as far as she was concerned negative attention from us was better than no attention. I used to start to tell off dc1 or dc3 and realise that I had started by using dc2's name by mistake! And I felt like the worst parent in the world at times. Now, in yr 4 she has calmed down, enjoys the challenge school offers and is likewise delightful and a pleasure to teach according to her teachers.

Most likely this is just a phase he is going through. He will make friends at school -it's amazing how they do at that age - and school might be the making of him!