Should I be worried about 19.5mo ds? Not talking + some other issues.

[JulieScrumptious]

Right, so he's not talking yet. He has one clear word, 'Mama', but he doesn't use it consistently and it always seems to be shouted. He does seem very proud when I react (eg 'Are you talking to mummy?') though. Despite getting very frustrated at times with his inability to communicate clearly (biting, scratching, screeching), he doesn't seem to make any 'effort' to say anything. He does babble extensively.

He's completely obsessed with fans, to the point where he sees them everywhere - any circle, even tiny ones and patterns that look like circles, he spots and makes his spinning gesture. His favourite ItNG character is the ball, followed by the Pinky Ponk with its propeller.

He sleeps very poorly and has done since birth, often refusing to sleep until very late at night (up till 10pm fairly regularly), and his waking times are equally unpredictable. I don't handle this very well so the problem here could be me :(

Daytime naps are all over the place. He dropped from two to one earlier than he 'should' have and it seemed to help with bed times for a while. Now it almost seems like having a nap at all makes it difficult to switch off at night. We couldn't drop it however because the times we've attempted to skip the nap he's fallen asleep later in the day - which leads to a ridiculous bedtime etc.

He goes through long phases of multiple night wakings.

On the positive side he makes eye contact readily, he shares attention and is very affectionate. He has good understanding - eg I just showed him how to smell a flower and he got it immediately, making a little sniffing noise and poking his nose out when I held it near his face. He loves to read books together and play football, and he enjoys and frequently initiates back-and-forth games like hide-and-seek. He is adorable, cheeky and very funny and super handsome.

I'm a worrier. When he was late walking I worried terribly but then one day - at 16 months - he just got up and ran. I don't trust my own judgement here - should I be worried?

Ah yes, bilingualism does make a difference. I was going off my old What to expect... which gives 3 words at 18 months as a normal minimum below which it might be worth considering consulting your GP (although some children will be below this level and absolutely fine, many will be below this level due to specific problems). But bilingualism is known to cause short term delays in language - along with long term advantages.

That said, I reckon any baby who is even slightly slow at talking should always get their hearing checked out, because it's such a common cause of language delay.

Tbh his speech doesn't sound significantly delayed at his stage.
That is not to sy he hasn't got a delay...i just wouldn't be too concerned ATM.

I am loathe to disagree with MrsD as she knows her onions but my experience with my DS who did go on to get a dx of autism was...concerns from 18 months re lack of speech (took him to baby signing from 6mo to 18mo and he never ever signed a word) spoke to HV and she ref'd him to SLT which took few months by which time my concerns had increased - his play was obviously different, also sensory issues (he also hated singing and noise), anxiety, frustration at communication. He, too, was obsessed with twirly things (wind turbines locally) and a shocking sleeper. I asked the HV to do a referral to paediatrician and he was dx at 2.5, after waiting list, assessment period etc.

I guess what I'm trying to say is my concerns were similar to yours at that age, and referrals were made, although the assessment/diagnosis took a while.

I would suggest it wouldn't hurt to chat to your HV about a possible SLT referral to get the ball rolling. If he suddenly starts to communicate well, and his frustrations ease, and your fears are allayed then he will be discharged - no harm in getting him in the system , IMHO, as these things take ages once you've requested them.

My DS was incredibly affectionate, attentive and loved sharing books with us too. Still is :) He's a diamond.

Having said all that ^^ DS2 is 21 months and not talking :( However I have not initiated any referrals or assessment yet as I have no other concerns regarding his communication, or other behaviour / development.
If you have concerns, no harm in asking for assessments. It probably varies from area to area, too, what assessments/services are offered at different ages.

How is his hearing?

It's fine to disagree :) but I don't think we are really.
We might well see children of this age with these concerns but a dx wouldn't happen at this stage because there is not enough for a firm dx.
Children who get early dx usually have more severe and obvious issues. children with milder symptoms may go on to get a dx as their development continues to lag behind and the gap between them and their peers becomes more distinct.
Hence the flurry of dx @ about year 2 and children moving from mainstream to specialist school. (not just ASD)
The watch and wait thing can be terribly frustrating (been there) but sometimes it is necessary (along with support and monitoring of course)

I am hoping all that makes sense. I am the mum of a Ds with ASD and Lds so I am coming fro both sides. It's why I never dismiss concerns. I try and reassure but always bear in mind that development is a complex process iyswim?

I think it's fine, but it's definitely something to check out.

Thanks for sharing your story sayjay.

Have you actually had his hearing checked?

DS1 wasn't talking at 2 and I was adament that he could hear cause he could follow instructions and knew the Thomas music from the other room but when they checked his hearing before we got refered to ENT they found quite a big hearing loss. They basically described it as the sounds being muffled so he couldn't pick up the individual sounds in words to attempt to say them and he was diagnosed with glue ear. He had his tonsils/adenoids out at 2.5 and within about a month he was starting to talk...now at 7 he never shuts up!

DS2 is 18 months and is also not talking but like DS can follow instructions/point to body parts/find shoes/dance to music etc. He is also having his tonsils/adenoids removed in a couple of months by the same surgeon incidentally but for completely different reasons...he makes a really awful noise when he breathes and after loads of tests they have come to the conclusion that it's his adenoids. Dr hasn't even tested his hearing but is pretty sure he has glue ear as well due to repeated ear infections so he's hoping this will help with his speech as well.

By drawing similarities in our DS's I don't mean to say your DS does have ASD, of course, just that I had similar concerns and got him in the system. I did then get some support and strategies whilst the 'watch and wait' was happening.
I realise it is unusual to get a dx so young (2.5) too, it was a blessing for us, opening doors into other services etc. I wouldn't say he is at the most severe end of the spectrum either, e.g. he is at mainstream school, albeit with full time 1:1

Glad you got decent support sayjay. It's how it should be.

That's interesting, iheart. I will definitely follow it up. I assume a hearing test is one of the first things the GP will want to do?

Sayjay no worries - I really do appreciate your input. I've been taking a head in the sand approach lalalalala it will all be ok if I ignore it but as you say, if there is an issue then the sooner we unpick it and tailor our approach the better.

I'm feeling awfully guilty and quite despondent. :(

Julie, I have a very similar story here with DS2. He's also cosleeping and bf-ing, by the way! (well actually, we're gently tackling moving him to his own cot for the night and are in the 'musical beds' phase of that.) I'm just waking up to the possibility that there might be something amiss with DS2.

DS2 is a very distinct contrast to DS1 in terms of development. Though why shouldn't he be? - being a totally different person and all. DS1 had a large vocabulary (50+) and did animal noises on demand at 18 m. I just found the 'proud mummy' document I wrote on what he could say. DS2 has no words at 18 months. None. DH thinks he's tried to say 'daddy' once or twice (gaggy) and a friend said he might have made a 'mmm mummm' noise at her house when I left the room. (Oh, and DS1 is convinced that he said 'aliens' but I'm pretty sure he didn't.) He says yeh yeh yer yer yeh when he's excited, and has been known to shout nah nah nur nur nur when he's pissed off with me for doing something he doesn't want. But nothing is consistent.

He has never, ever attempted animal noises, and more than that, isn't really bothered by pictures of them or animal toys. We have a board book on extended loan from the library which features, among other photos of various animals, a photo of kittens that so tickled him that I had to get it out for him. He's not interested in the rest of the book. He likes the mechanics of books - the way the pages turn, the cut-outs, the flaps - but not the stories or pictures. He does like animals in RL, and is fearless and giggly with dogs and cats.

He's very affectionate and comes up onto my lap for cuddles, though he doesn't hug back. He's been taught to do various games by my dad (forehead butting, hand-clapping, etc) but is very reluctant to do anything for his parents. (As usual, he'll do stuff for grandparents that we can't get him to do.) He can't be deaf (can he??) because he does respond to words like 'milky' (boob), choc choc, lunchtime, shoes (he loves his shoes) and 'do you want one of these?' followed by the noise of a crackling packet. He usually chooses to ignore instructions or requests, though he'll sit down if he's scaling the tv set or standing up on a bench.

No words. He was even quite a late babbler, I think. Inevitably, because we all now know a little bit about a huge subject, I'm worried about autism. DH is no bloody help (he's a psychologist, though not anything remotely connected to this area) and reminds me that 'all toddlers are essentially autistic'. Well, that might be true, but at this age, DS1 was speaking several words together and letting us know he understood what was going on. DS2 is prone to screeching when he sees something he wants, and if he's unhappy he'll let us know, but I can't help thinking he must feel very frustrated at not being able to express himself more clearly. Other than the speech, I think he's pretty normal for a 18 mo. He was walking by about 13 months and had been cruising since about 8 m. He's good on his feet and with his hands. He has cute, but not obsessive, preoccupations with spoons, wearing other people's shoes, and cups. SHould I be concerned? He's due to see the HV for a weigh-in and I was going to speak to her about this, but would like a balanced context of other peoples' experiences to set whatever she says into.

god sorry, essay!

Sorry, btw - my remark about us all now knowing a little bit about a large topic - autism - wasn't in any way aimed at anyone or meant snarkily. I know next-to-nothing about it myself, aside from anecdotal stuff. I just meant that because it's something that's talked about a lot more these days, my thoughts had turned to possible ASD, whereas if anything is amiss in the first place, it could be something quite different.

OP, if you are worried about autism, then worth doing the CHAT test.

the fact that is receptive language is good is very encouraging though and at 19 months far more important than the expressive language.

being cuddly and having eye contact does not rule our Autism on the other hand (I have a DD1 (4) with severe autism and she has good eye contact is cuddly and has also shared attention).

but having been through the system with my DD1, I would just advise to trust your instincts but even if you would go to GP now, I doubt anybody they would take you serious (it took 3 years for us from raising concerns to getting a diagnosis.)

not sure if anybody here mentioned a hearing test - maybe worth getting one done just to rule out any hearing issues (such as undetected glue ear).

Hi Reshape, sorry to hear you're having the same worries. I spoke to the HV today and she is going to refer ds for a hearing test - I'm happy to be doing something finally instead of just fretting.

I've also found that our local children's centre does a drop-in session with a SALT every week so we're all going along to that next week. Perhaps worth seeing if there's anything similar you could access? Services seem to vary so much by area.

Chocjunkie thanks - I'm going to have a look at that test now.

Ok, I'd say the thing that stands out is that he doesn't really play imaginatively - he'll pretend to give you something if he doesn't want to give you to real object but he doesn't pretend to make cups of tea or anything. :(

I'm no help re autism, but I was still bf my dd at 19 months and she never slept through the night. I then stopped bf and she then slept through the night when she realised there was no milk/mummy. Took 3 nights.

I almost posted the other week with similar concerns about lack of words/non speaking in my DS2, 20mth old. He stopped saying the few words he knew, like Mama/Papa, and when we would ask him to say it, he'd shake his head, if we tried to encourage further, he would screech at us. He has learnt a few new words in the past week, ie no, but he says it exaggerated, like nnnnnnnnno, as if that's the way he hears it.

I wonder about iheart mentioning the hearing tests as he had a lot of ear infections/burst drums when he was smaller, from about 4mths onwards (can't remember the last he had), but when we had him seen by a paed, at about 12mo, he wasn't concerned about them although there was scarring in his ear. Should I get a second opinion/another check on ears?

He is very vocal, makes lots of noises, sings, babbling and grunting, but to get what he wants, he will point and grunt, and not repeat the words when we tell him what it is. Oddly he loves round things too, like wheels and fans, and loves a good spin. He also has excellent comprehension, he just can't seem to make the jump to speaking.

Hmm, I can't remember, but I could swear that NT DS1 didn't do imaginative play at this early age.

DH spoke to a colleague who works in the area of early language development, and the colleague said that speech development was the most variable factor in infant/child development - basically that under the age of 2, it's generally neither here nor there as an indicator of underlying problems, because there's so much variability.

Thanks Julie, I'll look into local SALT drop-ins, though I've not come across them round here.

Ds yells his one clear word too HerRoyalNotness. MmmmmAMMA!

He wouldn't go to sleep till after 11 o'fucking clock this evening :(. I feel like screaming. I think, dolly, that we may be reaching a crossroads with the feeding and sleeping arrangements. I simply don't have much more to give. I haven't had a decent fucking night's sleep in nearly two years.

Reshape, my friend's daughter is the same age and she feeds teddy, changes his nappy, plays shop etc. But then she has always been light years ahead of ds in every single way - sleeping, walking, talking, the lot.

Not sure exactly what I can add, but I just wanted to say that toddlers are all so different (and, frankly, so bloody odd) at this age, that maybe you should try not to worry too much yet. In my case, DS1 was an early and fluent talker (and a great sleeper), but showed loads of other markers for autism from infancy (extremely sensitive to all sorts of things, never waved hello/goodbye, obsessive about lots of things (eg lining up toys etc), and no imaginative play at all). He's now nearly five, and in the intervening years we've often wondered whether he has Asperger Syndrome - but as time's gone on he's gradually grown out of most of his 'markers', and although he's still a bit unusual, we're now pretty certain that he's just a highly sensitive little boy, and not on the spectrum at all. By contrast, DS2 is now 22 months and not saying a word, but I couldn't be less concerned about autism. He's sociable, communicative, outgoing, friendly, laid back - the total opposite of DS1 at that age. I am thinking I should perhaps get his hearing checked (though he can say loads of animal noises, and can hear an aeroplane coming before anyone else is aware of it ), but I suspect he's just taking his own sweet time to actually form words.

All I'm really trying to say is, I wouldn't take one or two traits (like poor sleeping or relatively late talking) and jump to too many conclusions. And although I agree that you should trust your instincts and take him to see someone if you're worried, don't forget that your instincts can be pretty wrong - I was convinced a while ago that DS1 was on the spectrum, and I'm equally sure now that I was wrong.

Forgot to say - DS1 now does loads of imaginative play, but didn't start until he was well over 3.