Raised cortisol levels, colic and CC

[DialMforMummy]

I have been wondering this for some time:
Some people/studies/whatever say that if you do CIO/CC, it raises cortisol levels and may have negative consequences on the child's brain development. Hence a number of parents opt no to go down that route for fear of damaging their children.
Now, when a LO cries a lot because of colic/reflux/wind/discomfort/whatever, surely there must be raised level of cortisol too, musn't there? Clearly, you'd expect a parent to try to comfort a colicky baby which you don't when you do CC or CIO, but nevertheless the child is still crying and still stressed.
So what's the difference on the brain, then? If none, then why concern yourself with doing CC?
(I am biased, I have done CC with DS1)
Not looking for a bun fight BTW, just curious what people's thoughts are.

Dial m. I wouldn't ignore the evidence myself . If your son was traumatized by the process it may not be immediately apparent - as he lost some trust in you because you ignored his cries he may not show you his 'trauma' in a very direct way . It would more likely be festering under the surface I would think .

I find the CC and raised cortisol 'research' (is there any??) bizarre. Most of the nursery/ raised cortisol levels research is also flawed as there are little to no control groups used, and no actual research that proves a degree of raised cortisol for short periods isn't actually a good thing. (am also aware that the 'resilience' research is probably equally as flawed.)

I think the only actual cortisol based research that has been reasonably well received is the stuff about raised cortisol levels in the mother during pg. and not run of the mill 'ordinary' stress like moving house or having a car accident on the way home from work, but death of partner/ becoming homeless and have absolutely no support type stress. Even those with family support during these periods have proven that most stress is manageable and does not affect infant brain development prior to birth, with the very severe stresses (and absolutely no support) leading to raised levels of developmental delay. This is for a baby that is obviously forming it's brain whilst being literally bathed in maternal cortisol 24/7.

I have absolutely no issues at all with AP. but CC is not going to cause any issues with attachment. Neither is use of a nursery. And the slightly raised cortisol in these situations are going to have bugger all effect on brain formation and development.

At least according to the lovely lady who has been working as a neuro paed of late, has written a gazillion peer reviewed papers and a phd on brain development in babies pre and post birth, and has all the relevant links to all the relevant research, because it's her job.

Fwiw, I have a dh who sustained brain injury in an accident whilst I was pg with ds1 (who now has ADHD, aspergers symptoms, anxieties and phobias), and dd2 suffered birth asphyxia and has cerebral palsy. Dd1 had colic.

We have a lot of interest in brains in my family. and it makes me weep to see lovely but misguided posters on mn suggesting all manner of developmental issues c/o CC and nursery use. It just isn't the case. All kids are different and you might have a more sensitive child who would be happier at those with you. And not being left to cry. But to suggest that such a child will suffer developmental delay or later learning difficulties or MH issues is extremely damaging to parents self esteem etc.

hear hear, madwomanintheattic.

Good post madwoman. However at the end of the day, babies are little mammals as are we and I don't think that any amount of intellectualising what is best for them changes this.

There may be nothing in it, but I have 3 very happy, confident children (6 and under) who I have done all the hippy shit with and so I will remain entrenched in my views. Plus I'm kind of lazy and found wearing them in a sling and sleeping with them (thus eliminating crying) certainly kept my cortisol levels low.

I have had two refluxy/colicky babies. I wouldn't equate leaving them to cry as the same as crying via CC or CIO. In fact because of their reflux I haven't left them to cry and never would. I gave plenty of cuddles and could reduce or stop the screaming in many cases just by picking up and cuddling. In fact episodes of colic were reduced by keeping them with me 24 hours a day. Claustrophobic but in the grand scheme of things, 12 weeks of carrying a baby is nothing.

Also CC/CIO would raise my stress levels too much. I have two terrible sleepers and found that by co sleep

I have had two refluxy/colicky babies. I wouldn't equate leaving them to cry as the same as crying via CC or CIO. In fact because of their reflux I haven't left them to cry and never would. I gave plenty of cuddles and could reduce or stop the screaming in many cases just by picking up and cuddling. In fact episodes of colic were reduced by keeping them with me 24 hours a day. Claustrophobic but in the grand scheme of things, 12 weeks of carrying a baby is nothing.

Also CC/CIO would raise my stress levels too much. I have two terrible sleepers and found that by co sleeping, I could function pretty well! As soon as I tried forcing things I was exhausted (eg trying to get them in their cots etc).

The information about cortisol levels and crying comes from extreme situations such as the orphanages in Romania, not from babies who have been tended to and settled by loving carers every 5-10mins for 3 nights. what was practised in some overseas orphanages was not cc, but neglect, plain and simple. nothing about cc can be extrapolated from those studies. I think we need to be really clear on this distinction.

there are often threads posted about a link between "excess crying" and ADHD, and cortisol, but these studies are widely misinterpreted on MN I'm afraid. for example, the Wolke study about persistent crying and ADHD is often cited as a study about parents who used CIO/CC. In fact, the study was more simply about babies with persistent crying, ie infants who were highly unsettled or colicky. no inference is made in the study about parenting methods of these babies. There is no evidence of cc causing any damage whatsoever. of course, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but that's the case with lots of parenting choices.

What there is evidence of, is that maternal depression and depressed responses to your child can negatively affect mother/child attachment. so basically if lack of sleep is causing you to be burnt out, then it's a reasonable option to consider.

There is a good book called The Science of Parenting. It's worth reading.

Well, whatever the science, I think there is a difference in how a child might experience crying alone and crying in the arms of someone. Most babies prefer being with their parents and it has a physiological effect - otherwise why would skin-to-skin improve outcomes in PICUs? There may not be cortisol related brain damage, but why teach a child that you won't come when they cry (between the hours of 7pm and 7am)? Isn't CC usually done to cure the baby of resisting sleeping alone? I understand that it may not be possible for all parents in all situations, but why not let them be with you if you can? They've their whole life to sleep in a different room, in a different house, in a different country and on a different continent... babyhood just seems so short.

Actually wish I hadn't just posted that - it's not the right place for it. Sorry all.

Agree that if there is no science, it's a bit much to try and persuade people that they've damaged their children using CC or whatever.

Think that whatever the science is, it's probably a different kind of stress that the baby experiences, not sure whether that adds to different kinds of brain chemical reactions to that stress.

Sure. Like I said, I'm not averse to hippy shit. But I am averse to people who claim that if you don't do hippy shit, you are akin to abusing your child and it will end up with developmental or MH issues.

Skin to skin contact is usually to do with regulation of heart rhythm and temperature, as far as I'm aware, as well as obviously continuing to develop bonds with primary carers. Nowt to do with cortisol. I only spent 5 weeks in SCBU, though, and we couldn't hold her initially. Don't think I ever bothered looking it up.

Of course this thread is not supposed to be a debate about crying it out.
However your point is valid sparkly boots, there is a difference between crying alone and crying with another. One is beneficial to health the other detrimental. This is true for adults too. Just imagine if you were upset and had someone to cry on their shoulder as opposed to the frustrated cry of crying because you were suffering and wanted someone's attention, it's very different. Studies have shown that cancer patients do better in a support group - we all need a friendly ear when we are suffering So there is a diff between the colicky cries and cry it out .
Why not try it yourself? Next time you feel on the verge of tears you could lock yourself away in the bathroom or seek a friendly ear and see how the different ways of crying make you feel

Well maybe cortisol release in the context of CIO is a bit of a red herring then. It's just about humanity as far as I am concerned - leaving a tiny baby to cry (and I am talking CIO not CC) cannot possibly be beneficial to them in the short or longer term. I also speak as someone whose baby was on NICU on a ventilator and I was unable to hold him for 6 days.

Sure. And I don't disagree.

But to claim scientific validity is a step too far, and demonises parents.