Unknown

[takingiteasy]

But I'll try...

Some background. Dh and I have two sons. 6 year old and our new arrival who is 7 weeks old. I suspect a lot of the replies will pin point this as the reason for ds1's behaviour. But, I feel there's more to it.

About this time last year we had soiling issues which we dealt with. He was diagnosed with encroprisis and was treated with movicol. He regulated his bowel movements. We have occasional smearing but generally these are from not wiping properly.

Last week we found him peeing in the corner of his room. I shouted, he cried, he couldn't explain anything about why he'd done it. We all calmed down and spoke about why it was wrong. We didn't make to much of a big deal about it hoping it was a one off. I then went through his room and found several suspected areas he'd pee'd in.

Tonight tops that. He had a nice bath, some nice time with dh and I before bed, his fave supper, story etc. He was still awake when I cAme up to put ds2 to bed and I popped in to check on him. I noticed aa whiff and pulled back his covers to find him without his pjs on a poo and pee all over the bed.

We've cleaned him, the bed, had some tears, no explanations and implemented a punishment.

What's goin on? I k know a new baby can wreak havoc but it's not been that bad really. We're doing our best to ensure he's still got one on one time, still goes to his activities and has probably even been spoilt a bit with new Lego etc.

A couple of.other things are.worrying me too. Twice in the last week he's told me he wants to kill.himself. Today I took him off his computer he went off on one and told me he was going to kill himself and actually went to the kitchen to get a knife.

Every morning he is.thinking of reasons not to go to school but seems happy once he's there, comes out happy and no apparent issues.

Sorry for typo's fat fingers, tired and shit phone!

"Every morning he is.thinking of reasons not to go to school but seems happy once he's there, comes out happy and no apparent issues."

This is the part which rings alarm bells for me.

If you talk to the school you can guarantee they will say it's because of the new baby but I think you need to keep an open mind. Lots of children compartmentalise, i.e. seem fine at school then express their anxiety about things which happen there at home where they feel safer.

I would explore his feelings of not wanting to go further. Ask him about friendships, routines, noisy environments like the dinner hall, whether people shout, etc. Try not to make suggestions to him of things he could be worried about but listen very carefully to what he doesn't like.

I've tried talking to him loads about the school thing. He never comes out with anything tangible, just silly things. He has started worrying himself about tiny things. He was in hysterics one morning because he thought he'd get in trouble for not wearing a coat on a really hot day. Other examples of this include takin sun tan lotion on a trip even though its raining. Not wanting Doritos in his lunch box. Not wanting to take his star wars bike to school. All these are because he might get into trouble if he does or doesn't do them.

We're waiting to hear about a couple of referrals that were made by his teacher concerning suspected dyslexia but his reading and writing does seem to be improving.

Two things (both from a position of ignorance- no similar experience) leap out from your OP.

Have you had advice to punish him when he soils- it doesn't sound right.

His own computer. 7 is very young; I can see now that it must be hard to manage his use, but I'm surprised that a 7yo has a computer.

His computer meant the ps3 that's technically my dh's but ds has suitable games and we control the time he has. Yesterday the timer went off after his 15 minutes. He was in the middle of something crucial (aren't they always?) so I let him finish but he started taking the Mick I turned it off. generally our system works ok.

When we established the medical reason behind last years soiling of course we didn't punish. Peeing in his room on purpose isn't the same.

The computer/ PS3 management sounds OK, as you said your system works.

I don't know about the soiling punishment thing though. Were you given any advice? It's such an extreme thing to do (the original soiling) and punishing seems Victorian.

Sorry maybe I'm not being clear. Soiling that was linked to his encroprisis was not punished. Urinating in a corner of his room, being awake and messing his bed when he is perfectly able of getting out of bed and going to the loo is not ok in my eyes and that's what he's being punished for.

Sorry I realise my op doesn't clarify that he was awake last night.

I still think you need to dig a bit deeper about school. He's clearly taking things the teachers say very literally and is very concerned about getting into trouble.

It sounds like he could have high levels of anxiety about school and is perhaps not quite 'getting' the unwritten rules. This could cause him to get very stressed and explain the soiling and the comments about killing himself. He may feel trapped in a situation where he is anxious at school but doesn't understand why so can't explain it to you.

One approach which worked well for me was to get my DD to design her perfect school. I asked her what it would be like if she could wave a magic wand and turn it into a place she really enjoyed. The response was quite illuminating.

I agree with other posters that punishing for soiling may not be the best approach, especially if this is all triggered by anxiety. Dealing with the mess swiftly, calmly and without comment may be a better approach until you know what's causing it.

It's not OK, it's a really extreme thing to do.

I'm not saying it's OK at all, just that punishing doesn't seem right either

Maybe I'm way of the mark but I wouldn't call peeing in the corner of your room soiling or an accident.

I'm not saying it was an accident. I just don't think a punishment was a good way of addressing it. What were you hoping to achieve? You can show you're upset, let him know that it's not ok, but punishing for it sounds wrong.

Not sure about the school thing but re peeing in his room etc - might he be afraid of the dark? If sonethingvis scaring him and he doesn't want to cone out of his room to go to the bathroom he may feel forced to do it in his room. Have you ever told him off for getting out of bed and coming downstairs? Or told him he has to be quiet to not wake the new baby? Is he scared of monsters, ghosts etc? Just a thought...

No he isn't afraid of the dark and yes he gets sent back up but is always told he can get up to go to the loo. The time we caught him it was just after dinner he walked past the bathroom to go to his room and pee in there.

Last night he'd been in bed for about 30 minutes and had been looking at books and just sat there and wet and poo'd himself.

Please don't punish him. Can you get back in touch with the encoprisis team for advice?

"Twice in the last week he's told me he wants to kill.himself. Today I took him off his computer he went off on one and told me he was going to kill himself and actually went to the kitchen to get a knife. "

is worrying.

It could just be drama of course (although if so then where has he learnt it? has a friend or family member self-harmed or killed themselves? what kind of TV shows does he watch?) but I don't see any way to be sure.

It sounds to me like he's very unhappy and he's crying out for help of some kind.

I'd seriously consider asking the GP for a referral to child/adolescent mental health services.

(I don't mean that in a nasty way - sometimes we all have issues that we need help coping with).

If you go and see the local mental health team, if there is a serious problem then they might be able to help him deal with it, and if he's just being a drama queen and there's nothing really wrong then you've lost nothing.

HTH.

Toaster I've been thinking along the lines of CAMH. The school have made referrals to occupational health and SALT. Not sure of CAMH referral routes but might try and have a word with the school.

I'm hoping it is just drama but don't know where its coming from. Tv is cartoon network, nothing wild. Games are age appropriate.

He's an amazing wee boy. He's compassionate, funny, caring and being an amazing big brother and we tell him a hundred times a day. He's got great relationships with our parents.

I worry sometimes about his interactions with other kids at times as he likes to be in charge but he's getting better. He seems well liked at school and has friends in our street he enjoys playing with.

I think that would be wise. NHS Direct (0845 4647) might be able to help you find your local CAMHS, and maybe even self-refer directly to them.

All behaviour is communication.

Why would a six year old child walk past the bathroom to pee in his bedroom? Why would he lie in bed and soil the sheets? It can't feel very pleasant. Do you think a child would do this out of laziness? Maybe a two year old but I would be very surprised if a six year old would.

It doesn't really come in the same bracket as other unacceptable behaviour. It isn't achieving anything he could want.

I know this probably sounds dramatic but I think this could be a cry for help. Rather than trying to control the behaviour by punishing it my feeling is that you need to get to the root of why this is happening. What is your son trying to tell you with this behaviour?

Does he want to regress to babyhood? He can see that his brother doesn't have to go to school, use the toilet, go to bed early, etc and maybe he wants to go back to being a baby too. Would that be jealousy or trying to escape from something?

In order to manage behaviour you need to understand it. There's no point in using sanctions to control a behaviour if you don't know why it is happening in the first place. That would be treating the symptoms, not the cause.

I don't think your son wants to kill himself but I think he is desperate for something to stop. There is something he can't cope with. If the problems persist or escalate you may need support from the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service (CAMHS). Referrals for this service often take six months or more to come through so maybe it would be a good idea to see your GP now. It's OK to make an appointment without him so that you can speak freely without him hearing.

Wise words Timandra!

"cry for help" - wise words indeed.