DD's lack of sleep affecting her behaviour

[WhoNeedsAFullNightsSleep]

My daughter has always been a poor sleeper, pretty much from birth. When things got really bad (around age 2) I spoke to the GP and HV, both told me that she would grow out of it.

She's now 3.5 years and after an improved period of sleep (after consulting a 'sleep fairy'), things have slowly deteriorated once more. She no longer naps during the day, and settles well on her own (after a calm bedtime routine) at night, about 7.30pm. But if she wakes in the night, she can be awake from 2-5 hours. If she wakes at 3am, we're lucky if she goes back to sleep at all! Some nights she does sleep through, but I think this is because she is exhausted and in catch up mode. She doesn't cry when she wakes, but talks, seemingly to her friends and family. We've tried ignoring her, telling her to go back go sleep - nothing works. Nursery recently made comments on her lack of attention and suggested we have her assessed. She has had one initial assessment with a psychologist, mainly to get advice on the sleep, but before we go ahead with more in depth tests, has anyone experienced anything like this before? I'm convinced it's the sleep deprivation that's ruining her concentration, but need help to break the pattern she's in. Any advice gratefully received...

Any advice out there,

Any advice out there, Please?! :)

Didnt want to read and run, some kids need less sleep than others but if her concentration is wanning during the day it's a toughy

Have you tried keeping her up later at night to see if it alters also if there is anything in her room that would cause her to wake fully any stimulus?

Will she settle in the night if she comes into your bed?

Is she having bad dreams? My DD is nearly 4yo and claims to be "scared" by all kinds of things in her room, apparently the teddy bears keep roaring in the night!

I don't have any answers but FWIW my DD doesn't seem to need much sleep at night and is often awake until 8.30pm but then sleeps until 6am. Towards the end of the week (she goes to nursery) she gets exhausted and I have to let her nap on Thursday/Friday afternoons, plus catch up at the weekends. Obviously this will need to change in September when she starts school!

Perhaps some daytime naps will help?

A few ideas from my own experience of sleep 'issues' with four children, all of whom dropped their naps by age 2.5.

1. Is she going to bed too early? Mine all need different amounts of sleep, but if the ones who need less go to bed too early, they wake and can't get back to sleep again and then they really do get tired the next day.

1. If mine can't get back to sleep, they come in bed with us - our warmth and breathing settles them quite quickly usually and then we all get more sleep. None of my children have been asked to sleep alone all night long until they're five or six - it's not biologically normal for children to sleep without their parents until at least three or four anyway, so their bodies do wake them up properly if they wake and find they're alone because it's instinctive that they go and find a parent. If one of us finds it difficult to sleep with our 'guest', they get out and sleep in the guest's bed for the last half of the night - it's not much to ask for sleep-filled nights and it's not for long. My oldest two only need us in the night if they have a bad dream, and even then it's just a cuddle and a kiss (7 and 9) and my third only comes in our bed once or twice a week now (5). It's my 3.5yo who we most often find in our bed - she's warm and snuggly, though - it's lovely

ps. Her behaviour is entirely normal. It is our culture that has made normal childhood sleep patterns into a 'problem'.

Have you seen a documentary called 'Jess: Britains Youngest Sleepwalker', if not give it a watch and see if it sounds similar - it just reminded me of this. If it does maybe mention it to the psychologist? It can help them to find the correct root of the problem/way of helping faster.

She basically was awake, though appeared asleep as didn't really respond to be spoken to. She was enjoying a sort of inbetween state that you reach just before speak and because it made her play seem more engaging she woke up to play and chat to things and people at night. (If I remember correctly.)

Sorry this isn't much help, I just thought it might be worth a look. xxx

Thanks for all your comments!

Smurfy1 - that's something the psychologist suggested - keeping her up until 10pm and then gradually bringing her bed time earlier each night by 15 minutes. The night we were going to try it, she was begging to go to bed at 8pm!! We have also cleared her room of all toys etc (also advised by psych). We have also introduced a treasure chest that the sleep fairy leaves goodies in if she sleeps through, or settles quickly after a night waking. We had a better few nights after making these changes, but then on Thursday, she woke at 10pm and didn't go back to sleep until 4.30am when I finally joined her in bed. She was very figity, like she was wired, but then suddenly crashed. No surprise, she asked to sleep at nursery the next morning at 10am.

PoppyWearer - yes, I think day time naps sometimes do help. But on some days when I try to get her to nap, nothing works. She would never go to bed, but even driving, pushing her in the buggy wouldn't work. She does however go 'sour' at about 3pm when she's obviously waining and needs rest. I do always give her quiet time after lunch though.

FlamingoBingo - From your experience, what time would you put her to bed? She's asleep by 7.30 usually at the moment and falls asleep pretty quickly. I agree that bringing her into the family bed does work, but with her, this only soothes her to sleep if she's been awake for hours on end. If she's woken in the last hour, she just sits up and wants to play/chat. She never seems upset - just talks/giggles/shouts. Thank you for your comments about her being normal. I do feel this has all been blown out of proportion by the nursery and modern day thinking - thanks for confirming my thoughts!!

Smokeandglitter - yes! I did see that documentary!! I hoped it would give us all the answers, but it seemed the solution was just being firm, putting her to bed rather than letting her fall asleep in front of the tv. Although the chatting at night was very similar to my DD - scarily so. We have a no tv after 5 rule and a very calm bedtime routine. Or as calm as it can be with her little brother of 2 years thrown into the mix! Plus dad gets home during the bedtime routine which winds up the situation...

I find mine all get a second wind if it's not convenient for them to go to sleep when they're initially tired. Sometimes the younger ones are lolling at five-ish! But we know that we're doomed if they sleep then, so we usually do something fun around then to drag them out a few more hours and they usually perk up after half an hour or so. Sounds mean, but really it's not. We don't force them to stay awake if they're literally falling asleep where they stand , and if we suggest a fun game and they're really too tired for it, then they won't be swayed and we just go with it. Usually it's fine, though.

You'll need to play around and see what time works for you. If our three year old goes to sleep any earlier than eight we're in trouble. Can't remember what th cut off time was for the others I'm afraid.

I just wrote this blog post, btw, inspired by your question but based on thousands of times I've had or heard similar concerns.

Both my children experienced something similar. They would usually wake at 4-5 ish and not go back. It felt like torture. DD 9 grew out of it. DS7 is still an early riser (6ish) and has problems getting to sleep - see my thread. I think Chris Green (Toddler Taming) mentioned in his book that it's OK to give toddlers medicine on an occasional basis to kick them out of a bad sleep habit and back into a nice routine. Giving calpol (or especially medised) used to work a treat but I believe this is against current medical advice. I used to think that if they're not hungry or wet and you know they are tired it must be because they have a headache/tummy ache or teething pain so give them something for it.