Absolutely fed up with my dd's behaviour, will a reward chart work?

[Dancergirl]

A bit of background - I have 3 dds aged 11, 9 and 5. The 5 year old often behaves terribly and it's really getting me down. Hitting, kicking, pushing me/dh/her sisters when something doesn't go her way, shouting, tantrums, threats ('I'll hit you if you don't do x, y or z' ). She's actually very well behaved at school and friends' houses, it's just at home. I worry that she seems to have no respect for me or dh.

I know that dh and I are partly to blame for not being stricter and allowing it to go on for too long. I suppose I'm guilty of being the slightly knackered mother of 3 who's got a bit lazy and allowed things to slip. And I know it's hard for dd3 too who's the youngest in the family (and knows it) and doesn't/can't do a lot of things her sisters do. She has a lot of frustration.

Dh and I have discussed the issue and tried to work out whether the carrot or stick approach would work best with her. He thinks the stick. It's just a question of finding her achilles heel. What she loves to do is stay up late (ish) for a family meal we have once a week. So we thought we'd have a behaviour chart for her - when she behaves well she gets a sticker on her chart, when she's naughty she gets a big cross (yes I have watched Supernanny lol!). At the end of the week, if she has more crosses than stickers she can't stay up and has to go to bed early.

Do you think this sounds reasonable? Does anyone have any other advice for the physical lashing out? Do you think she should get a warning for hitting/kicking etc or an automatic cross on the chart?

You need to find out what happens before and straight after the behaviour to work out what she is tying to achieve and how to handle it. Keep a log.

I think she feels she has to compete and always has to be top dog as it were. She also lashes out if she thinks she's being teased (which we of course try not to do but in any family there's an element of a bit of ribbing...)

Tbh, I'm not 100% convinced about doing the chart but does anyone have any better suggestions?

I think star charts are a great incentive for good behaviour but you also need to deal properly with her negative behaviour.
I think the physical aspect particularly isn't good at all and also must be affecting your other dc?
I would give one warning and then a time out or whatever your chosen method is but if it's a full on kick or hit I'd take her straight to time out. Either a step or put her in her room for 5 minutes (her age). If you've seen supernanny that's exactly what she does. She doesn't use star charts for that kind of naughty behaviour more for doing homework, laying the table, eating a meal, brushing teeth i.e. positive things the child does. It tends to take a bit of time to train the child that they must stay put for the 5minutes by returning them.

A log will help you figure out if reward chart, time out or something else might work. Sometimes it's hard to see the wood for the trees when you are living with it.

girlgonemild - what do I do then when she hits/kicks in the car or walking from school to the car?

Dancer, why is she doing it?

Sorry I realised my post was v simplistic. Obviously that's one of those textbook sort of answers and it's always harder to do these things in real life situations isn't it?!

I think walking to school or on way home in car at 5 you can tell her in the moment that the behaviour is completely not on and that she will have a time out once home (she should be old enough to connect the consequence with the behaviour even with a sort delay). Or if say you are in car and on the way out I would leave her in the car seat for 5 minutes whilst you wait outside and then go on to do whatever it was you were going to do. I guess it's never ideal and changes are always hard to implement but if you always respond in the same way after a while the behaviour will lessen all the time so you don't/rarely have to do it. You do have to get a bit of energy together to implement it though I guess which can be hard when you feel ground down by it all.

Hope that helps in some way!

Also whatever you do you have to be the one in control of the consequence... a friend of mine does 'time out' with her ds who hits etc. but she tells him (from afar) to sit down when they are out and doesn't enforce it. So he sits for a second wherever he happens to be standing and then wanders off. It doesn't work at all. I think you need to take the child aside/outside/to the car and do a proper designated time out which you are in charge of and tell her clearly what it's for and when it is over if your going to bother at all otherwise she can't learn.

are you having positive fun time alone with her?

any physical violence in our house means child gets sent straight to bedroom for however long. It is not tolerated under any circumstances. have you thought about why she is behaving in such a way? is she trying to get your attention?

I wouldn't do the chart myself. It's a bit heavy and although she's 5 not 3 it's quite hard not being able to have the family meal which sounds lovely quite a long time after some of the bad behaviour. I would want to be dealing with the stuff at the time then forgetting about it.

Re the physical stuff, this is completely unacceptable and I think you have to be a lot stricter to stop her doing it. Shouting and threats are unacceptable too. Yes, I would do one warning and then punishment, but sometimes you don't have to do a warning if it's bad hitting or something, then I send either DC (5 and 3) to their rooms.

Re bad behaviour going to the car etc, well after a warning to stop straight away I would do a punishment when you get home- either go to room, or withdraw priveleges such as TV- and maybe a reminder that next time there will be no lee way re warning- they should know at 5 that this behaviour is not on. As she is well behaved at school it shows she understands boundaries etc so hopefully if you can be consistent she will get in line quite quick. I might be tempted to sit down with her and write some Super Nanny style rules- eg no hitting, no shouting and what the consequence will be.

You mention that she feels she has to compete etc. For a totally different approach you could try some playful parenting stuff.

So have a specific set aside time were she gets to be in charge (of you or the whole family). The idea is to let them have a bit of power if they feel a bit powerless and also burn off some physical energy. There are clear rules set beforehand eg no actual hurt to be inflicted but set a challenge like get past me to the other side of the room. You don't have to be a total pushover and let her win but maybe vary how difficult you make it. There are loads more ideas in the book about wrestling etc to give them a chance to get out their frustrations.

Or just let her boss you about or tease you in some role play so her place as the youngest feels a bit less like its always her being picked on by the bigger ones. And ribbing feels a bit less hurtful if she can have fun with it too.

Aside from these times I agree you have to make it clear that kicking and hitting anyone else is unasseptable as Supernanny would say.

strangerinthehouse - I did try reading Playful Parenting but I didn't get on with it at all and returned it to Amazon.

Both me and dh try and have fun doing stuff with her whether it be doing arts and crafts which she loves, going on the swings, horseplay with daddy, reading stories together, lots of cuddles etc. She loves roleplay and I often play along pretending to be whatever. So she does get a lot of positive attention I would say.

Why does she do it? She's got a quick temper and reacts badly to being laughed at (not in a nasty way, when she does or says something sweet or funny).....she likes her own way with regard to who sits where (at the table, on the sofa etc). After school is a particularly difficult time as they are all at the same school until September and all want my attention at once. If she's telling me something and is a bit slow getting to the point, dd2 might get a bit impatient with her and interupt then dd3 often lashes out.

As I said above, I think both dh and I have been too lax with her and turned a blind eye once too often. I feel incredibly guilty about that now I think I just thought she would grow out of it. I think I need to do the time out thing each and every time and make it very consistent.

I don't see a point of bothering with reward charts, tbh, if you can do the same thing in the immediate-so if she's not doing as she's told she will have to suffer an immediate consequence. It will also be easier for her than having to remember the reward at the end of the week-it's a long time for young children.

So if she misbehaves- she goes to her room, or will not watch the dvd/tv programme she was about to watch, or she will not get to participate in a play with you/other children etc etc, whatever it is that you are doing at the moment.

It really is about being firm and sticking to it, ime. In our case, it's like this:

DH: DD, come to bed/stop doing this/get dressed/don't talk like that...
DD: No, I don't want to!
DH: DD, please, do it right now!
DD: Noooo
DH:DD, please, I won't say it again!
DD: No, no, no.

And ad infinitum

Or:

Me: DD, come to bed etc etc
DD:Nooo
Me: DD!
DD:Coming!

As you can see, one of us implements immediate consequences strategy, the other doesn't. DD knows it very well

Sounds to me like she doesn't feel she is being taken seriously - is there a hint of that also in the fact that you've let it slide a bit with her - because fundamentally you regard her as too young to be a big problem? Is there any way you could try and take her more seriously, even when she's being cute, naive, or demanding because of her age? For example, you could try taking her tantrums seriously ("I can see that you're very cross...") rather than issues of behaviour management. She also sounds like she's very sensitive to being the youngest, is there any way in which you could give her an experience of being 'in charge' (for example, choosing a family activity regularly) or find something which she does independently of her sisters (a class or group which is not a baby version of something they do)? Although you are laughing etc. out of love, she's clearly experiencing it as being patronised, so it might be worth trying to meet her efforts as if they were her life's work (to her, they are) rather than as indications of her sweetness or youth, and delight about it in private afterwards.

I'm in the no-carrots, no-stick camp myself - rather I'd be trying to work out what she's trying/failing to communicate with you. I'd also say in the case that it is her feeling like she's not taken seriously, or dismissed because of her age, it would be especially punitive to withdraw an 'adult' privilege of staying up late and though she probably will really want to comply with your chart, it's quite an ask for a 5 year old to keep on top of their temper in a moment of upset. I myself still swear in such moments, and I am 35.