Where to find advice on parenting 9+ year olds?

[mrscraig]

My dd is 9. She's always been very sensitive, a trifle high maintenance but basically a happy, sociable and quietly confident little girl.
Lately, she has become much more pre-teen ish - stroppy, questioning everything I ask, very tearful, rudely answering me back. She has never really been like this before and I'm not really certain how best to handle it.
I don't want to lock horns but neither do I want to be a push over.

I have always had a 'delicate' relationship with my mum and grew up (and probably still feel) that she never really listened to me and put her spin on everything I ever told her so it became about her. I want my dd and I to have a healthier relationship than my mum and I had (and still have).

There is a plethora of advice books, courses etc on raising babies, toddlers, pre-schoolers but nothing really when they get past this. Can anyone suggest a good read or offer me advice? Thanks

Marking my place here, my 11yo DS is becoming a bit of a Kevin & I'd love to find an instruction manual for him!

My eldest is 9 and we haven't hit this stage yet but I would recommend reading 'How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk' by Faber and Mazlish.

The best advice I was given was from a friend whose two children (boy and girl) were both horrors at this age, as mine were. Her solution was to give them more independence - let them go to the shop, play out, whatever - but it really worked.

I'm having the same problem with my nearly 9-year old dd. I feel like all of a sudden our relationship has deteriorated and sometimes it seems like she actively doesn't 'like' me and doesn't care what I think. She even 'smirks'. Its just taken me by surprise this teen-like neahviour so early. I'm still in toddler land with ds (3)!

watching with interest for any advice/reassurance.

(I have tried reading the 'How to Talk' book but really didnt get in with it, it made me feel worse.)

Thanks fox (LOVE your name!).
She is allowed to play out - we live in a small cul-de-sac. But, lately, where we live there have been wranings about a man who is approaching children of her age, so I am very reluctant to let her venture too far.

I did read the 'How to talk' book a while back but think will dig it out and re-read.
Today we have been for lunch with friends - she was lovely. Since we've been home (ooh been in for about 1/2 hour) she's upset her sister by sneering at a puzzle she was doing and in true 'Kevin' style, stomped up to her room and tried to slam the door, whilst shouting about how we all hate her!! Aaaaarrgghhhhh!!!

Sorry hairtoe - xposts.

I know EXACTLY how you feel. The toddler years seem a bit breezy compared to where we are now. I know I read somewhere once that at aged 8-9 the infleunce of their freinds comes much more to the forefront. I know my dd hangs about with girls at school who act waaaaay beyond their years and think perhaps I am seeing the impact of this on her behaviour at home.

I suppose it is reassuring to know we are both in the same boat!

Thats exactly the same for me!

My dd is in year 3 and this year has been in a mixed year class with year 4. She's got very pally with a couple of year 4s who act much older, and I know she's had a few friendship issues with them (but to her credit has been dealing with it pretty well - just coming home stroppy!). Luckily Year 4 are off to Middle school next year so I'm clinging on to the hope that maybe she'll 'revert' a bit once they're not around. Think I'm probably clinging to straws a bit though - very PFB of me to assume she's being 'led astray' ! She's a feisty character (euphemism alert).

I'm notoriously a bit of a worrier but do feel woefully unprepared for this. And you read on so many threads here on Mumsnet where people are complaining about their relationship with their Mother and all the things she did wrong when she was bringing them up. I'm panicking thats going to be dd in the future!

With two younger siblings (dd2 is 5 and ds is 3) I feel like I'm firefighting all the time and haven't got much time or energy so any 'regime' or approach I try has to be manageable. Sorry this has turned into a me me me moan!

Sorry mrscraig got a bit carried away there! It is good to know she's not the only one, the only people I've spoken to in RL about this who've got girls around the same age have looked at me aghast (both their daughters seem 'younger' than her, certainly less teen-y).

ohforfoxsake - definitely think that more independence would help.

She was playing out for quite a while but thats kind of stopped as there's only one girl in the street and she's fallen out with her (apparently she's really bossy ) so she hasn't been out recently. She'd like to go further afield to call for some different people or go to the shop but i'm a bit loathe to extend her territory that far just yet.

Hairytoe - we're like two peas in a pod!!

I too am a worrier and so desperate to not have the relationship with my children that I have with my mother but at the moment we are heading right along a beaten path.

I am also an infant teacher and so not used to dealing with older children as it were. I feel out of my depth - all the usual strategies just seem inappropriate.

I see so much of myself in my daughter too. I don't blame the other girls in her class. I do not exempt her from her behaviour but I think she is getting the idea that perhaps Mummy is a bit of an idiot after all and it's ok to challenge her. In the same token I don't want to her to be in a dictatorship where her voice is not heard. It's just knowing how to strike a blance we're both happy with.

I totally recognise that feeling that 'Mummy is an idiot' though I'm trying hard not to take it too personally. It's such a difference compared to the younger two who, even if they're cross with me I know still think I'm the bees knees. Just like she used to do . Like I said I kind of knew all that was coming just not so soon.

I remember being in the doctors surgery with dd1 when she was a baby with lots of people cooing over her and me as pleased as punch. On my way out a kindly looking elderly man said "what a beautiful baby". I smiled and he said "make the most of her, one day she'll be telling you to f* off" ! I was so surprised I just laughed and walked out

And yes I fluctuate between zero tolerance "don't talk to me like that young lady go to your room' and trying hard to be all touchy feely and understanding ' i hear what you're saying I understand you're feeling cross". Sonetines though there's just not time for all that perfect parenting i just need her to shut up and stop arguing with me! ( patience not always my strong point )

Marking my non patient no clue how to handle my 10y old place.

Hi pissydust (? I won't ask) well mrscraig looks like this is turning into a pretty good support thread. there's a few of us about.

See this us why in the old days children got sent off to boarding school at 8

When dd is in a 'difficult phase', i find it works best to be clear, kind and firm. If I am very clear about the boundaries (and try to stay a few steps ahead in anticipating situations), she responds much better than if I am soft/lenient/vague. I also don't go into too much detail about my reasoning for things, because when she is being tricky, she'll only try to argue and disagree.

i let her know clearly when I think she has been rude, demanding or difficult, and generally have a zero-tolerance policy regarding that sort of behavior. If she treats me with respect and affection, she will receive that treatment in return. I also try not to let her provoke me into a more serious and upsetting unpleasant encounter. I am not harsh with her, but also take no nonsense. And I try never to lose my temper - that is when things get ugly and the guilt/remorse sets in.

I save soft cuddly times for when she is behaving in a more endearing fashion. I don't withhold affection when she's being disagreeable but am more matter-of-fact and direct.

I have found that works best for me (and us). I also find that when I am the most firm with her, she usually responds best (which is an alien concept for those of us who want to be loving Mums in direct contrast to the negative parenting we received).

I see your point Earlybird. I think this is a testing time, where boundaries are being pushed so I need to remain firm.
So far this morning, she has been a delight. She does wax and wane though so could possibly blow up in my face later.

Can I just ask, when you say you have a zero tolerance attitude, what exactly do you do? Do you have consequences?

You need to be like the solid rocky cliffs with them being the waves that buffet-assault-lap at the shoreline.

I love that story about the old man in the surgery by the way Hairytoe.

Also back to the zero tolerance thing I think it does come into conflict with the way I want to be a parent that hears what your child says and actually listens. Rather than how it was with my mum where you would be trying to tell her something and she would hear but then not actually listen and turn it round to being all about her. She is STILL the same, it is the major factor in why our relationship is so functional.

I like the analogy AdventureswithVoles.

Is that how you see yourself in times of gloom?!

My zero tolerance involves mostly not engaging when dd is testing me and/or being deliberately provocative. She will say/do things that show she is challenging me, and trying to engage me.

I generally don't respond in any meaningful way (because then a disagreement can occur that will only escalate). I mostly just respond in an acknowledging sort of way ('hmm', or 'really?' or 'I didn't know that' or 'lets talk about it later' or 'you've given me something to think about') and then just keep moving her in the direction I want her to go.

When your dd is being difficult, simply tell yourself 'do not engage, do not discuss', and you'll be surprised how quickly it takes the heat out of any situation. They can't have a one-way argument.

Of course, there are lines that can be crossed if she is exceptionally foul or rude. And in that instance, I simply tell her 'that's enough, you need to stop now' and warn her that if she persists there will be consequences. I sometimes send her to her room for a while until she is able to be civil.

As a child, the times I felt most aggrieved with my own mother was when she 'lashed out' in anger. Obviously, i don't want to repeat that pattern so I simply don't get pulled in to dd's drama. I simply don't 'play ball' in those moments, because I know it will deteriorate. I make sure I stay 'in charge' as the adult.

Early bird you sound invincible please come to my house and give me done 1-on-1 training! Need to be more like you and AdventureswithVoles' rocky cliffs.

Trouble is my personality is more tsunami like!

Oooh no - not invincible at all! And believe me, if I've somehow got it sussed for the moment, my fabulous 'strategy' will stop working any minute now!

Just don't go tit-for-tat, don't try to score points or 'show them who's boss', don't try to get in the last word - just repeat the mantra: 'do not engage' and walk away mentally from getting pulled into an argument.

Dd is definitely the choppy seas that can be placid & gentle, even loving, at other times. So I guess that leaves me as the hardened craggy shore! :)

Early bird / Adventures with Voles just wanted to come back and sat thank you again for the tips. Dd1 tried really hard to start an argument with me this afternoon and I immediately thought back to your " do not engage " and " impervious cliffs" and it worked really well. I felt much less stressed and resentful and her mood dissipated pretty quickly.

I'm sure it won't be this simple every time but it's given me a bit of hope for the immediate future. Till the next 'phase' !

Or how about

Www.mumsnet.com/talk/preteens

Source of all reassurance for those of us with dc 9 or so and up. Has been a lifesaver at times :)