Kiss Me (how to raise your children with love) by Carlos Gonzalez

[Ponders]

\link{http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/may/28/carlos-gonzalez-doctor-parents-break-rules\article in the Graun}

I love the last paragraph

'Just as I leave, we talk about a famous childcare author who is publishing another book. "I saw her book," he says. "At 2pm, you have to do this for 15 minutes," he mimics. "Imagine if someone wrote a book like that about sex! 'At 9pm, touch the nipple for 10 minutes.'" Imagine.'

I find myself agreeing with one of the commentators on that website:

"Since when has picking up a baby been one of the ' things you're not meant to do as a parent'?

Is this a Spanish thing, or a myth he's pushing in order to make us believe that the common sense he's selling is somehow groundbreaking?"

Surely most of us have had books shoved at us about the importance of bonding until they came out of our ears? As I remember it, all the stuff we got from the clinic before birth had sections about the importance of taking time to bond and meet your child's emotional needs and how you can't spoil a small baby? And that was 15 years ago, so hardly a new thing.

Again, how many people these days believe that feeding has to take the shape of forcing spoonfuls down a reluctant baby? blw has been fashionable for ages, and even in my day spoon feeding was not the same as force feeding.

Maybe childrearing is very oldfashioned in Spain.

He says 'Mothers in Spain go to doctors to ask how to raise their child' but it's probably more a non-British thing - I had my first in the US & there was nothing there like our midwife/HV/baby clinic system. When we went home from the hospital we were completely on our own except for visits to the paediatrician (& the first of those wasn't for 3 weeks)

Actually I should prob have put this in Chat as I wasn't intending to promote the book, just have a snigger about the "famous childcare author"

I did wonder if that was your motivation

Actually cory there are STILL books out there that lead people to believe that by picking their baby up when it cries you are spoiling it or setting up bad habits for the future. Witness the number of threads on here with mums stressing that they are 'making a rod for their own backs' by allowing a newborn to go to sleep on them!

I met Carlos Gonzalez a couple of years ago at a conference and I heard him speak about the topic "my child won't eat". He was a brilliant speaker.

I haven't read his books and I would love to. He was very entertaining as a speaker.

I think we do need this sort of stuff from a 'medical' perspective even in the UK.

When DS was about 6 weeks old or so he really struggled with sleep. I asked advice from the HV, GP and a paediatrician friend. I didn't want him to 'self-settle' or anything - just to take less than 2 hours to get to sleep each time.

The paediatrician said we must make sure he never ever went to sleep on anyone (ie never being held or in a sling).

The HV said I should put him in the cot and let him cry till he got the hang of going to sleep.

The GP said I should put him down and 'leave him to scream'. :(

DH wanted to do all of these things, not because he thought they were pleasant, but because the 'professionals' who 'knew what they were talking about' said it was what we should do.

It was only because I'd read lots about CC and stuff on attachment parenting (including by paediatricians) that DH reluctantly agreed to ignore their advice. I'm sure there are lots of parents who feel they 'should' follow advice like this from HCPs, and don't have the knowledge of alternatives to allow them to decide differently.

What Angel said.

DS is only 2.5 y.o., so it wasn't that long ago either.

2 of DH's friends with children spent lots of time telling him what he 'needed to know' about little ones. As far as I can tell, all they told him was (repeatedly, and every time they saw him) how fantastic CC was, how we 'must' do it (this was before DS was even born), and how brilliant a certain "famous childcare author's" approach was. On that basis, DH still thinks that CC would be worth trying, although he's resigned to the fact that there's no way I would agree to do it unless my mental health was seriously at stake (or unless I had a baby who needed to cry to sleep, which IMO isn't CC anyway). :(

I read the article and was going to buy the book, till I got to the sneery bit about Gina Ford.

Her style was not for me, but so what? Many new parents, too exhausted to trust their instincts, find her a lifesaver.

All this division and sneering at those who make other choices does nothing to help.

And we are back to the crowing about not needing to resort to cc already.

My friend had a baby a few weeks ago. On day eight her sister told her she was picking her up too much!! Sometimes friends and family are the worst culprits with their parenting advice.

I know there are such books, Octavia, but that doesn't warrant speaking of this Gonzalez bloke as if he had come up with something new and revolutionary which nobody had thought of before. His views are at least as mainstream as the other end of the spectrum.

I know, but to be honest given the weight of neurological evidence in favour of his approach (and the weight of evidence that the other end of the spectrum is damaging to small babies) I think the more books on that side of the scales the better. I agree that it's not new, but the argument does need having, over and over again - partly because the 'other side' seems to be the one that non-parents find most logical and obvious. I know one normally sensible woman (childless) who buys the whole GF series for anyone having a baby. Simply because she knows nothing about babies and to her that approach makes sense.

There is no credible neurological evidence which favours Gonzalez over Gina Ford.

There is evidence about truly extreme situations - Romanian orphanages etc. Not about loving families doing their best and using a conventional approach to parenting.

"There is no credible neurological evidence which favours Gonzalez over Gina Ford. "

Similarly there is no credible evidence that favours Gina over Gonzalez.

I expect that is probably true. A child needs love to thrive. If a child is loved then it probably doesn't matter much what parenting approach you follow.

Although extreme black and white thinking and parenting by the book instead of by the heart is not good for anyone. I doult that either author expects you to follow their book to the letter. Different books are for different temperment of parenting.

Prehaps the important message is to parent with the heart and trust your instincts. Children are fairly robust and provided they are loved they will not come to neurological harm.

Even orphanages have to be pretty extreme to have the kind of effect evidenced by the Roumanian ones. No evidence as far as I am aware of similar effects on orphans from e.g. Korean orphanages, which were obviously run on different lines. There was a lot that was pretty extreme about Roumania in those days...

I think that lies and insinuations about 'neurological evidence' are vile. Claiming that parents who don't take your approach are damaging their children is despicable.

Agree with Really Tired, in reality we are not expected to follow any guru's advice to the letter. It is a shame that some conscientious parents do.

Lies HoleyGhost - who are you accusing of lying? Would you like me to list the papers that have been published on the neuroscience of baby brains? There is piles of credible neurological evidence that favours the attachment (or whatever you like to call them) techniques over the leave-the-baby-to-get-on-with-it techniques. Just because you don't know about them doesn't mean they don't exist. There are clear and positive links between techniques such as CC or CIO (basically the same thing) in under-1s and neural pathways setting up dispositions to depression, anxiety and inability to deal with stress. That is why HVs and other HCPs are often being told by their health authority that these techniques are no longer to be recommended for under-1s. It is not simply a matter of opinion it is a matter of research. You don't have to treat your child like a Romanian orphan to alter its neurological development in one direction or another.

Cherrypick all you like. You are spreading misinformation that will cause distress to parents who follow evidence-based medical advice.

I won't change your beliefs and I've no desire to turn this into a rerun of the Oliver James threads, though his webchat was amusing.

You might change your minds if you met my son.
8 weeks with a mother who wouldn't look at him, pick him up or respond to his cry has done enormous damage.
Don't minimise the neurological damage done by neglect.
It should not be used to sell parenting styles and books though.

mrsdevere :(

i have said on another thread about cc that in a situation where otherwise the child has loving parents etc that it is probably ok in a baby over 1yr and for short periods, nad with lots of reassurance, but i do agree with octavia that there is growing evidence that particularly for babies under 1yr cc or cio is not great and she is right that hv's etc are now being told not to recomend it for babies under 1yr.

You can never spoil a child with too much love & attention. Just go by your own instinct, it'll help your peace of mind as well as help the baby to be more secure and calm.
Experts advice shd. only be taken with a pinch of salt. Every child is an individual and therefore has diffenent needs, shd steer clear of one size fits all type of theories.
Good luck.

One request, Holey - you mention evidence-based medical advice. Point me in the direction of your evidence and I will go and read it. Will you go and read my neurological research papers?

Since you believe in your evidence so firmly, you should bring it to the attention of NICE.

I won't waste my time trying to change your beliefs.

Good grief, the NICE doesn't give guidance on matters like this! Look, why don't you read a couple of the papers I've listed below. It's not about belief - when the evidence is clear you don't have to 'believe' because you know.

Field, T The effects of mother's physical and emotional unavailability on emotional regulation pub 2003
Stam, R et al Trauma and the gut: interactions between stressful experience and intestinal function pub 1997
Kramer KM et al Developmental effects of oxytocin on stress response: single versus repeat exposure
Gunnar MR (1989) Studies of the human infant's adrenocortical response to potentially stressful events
Gunnar MR et al (2002) Social regulation of the cortisol levels in early human development

I could go on and on and on. Just have a look at them, ok?