Help. going through the motions, but dd 6 driving me mad

[orangeandlemons]

I am just fed up of her. I try to be nice and kind, but don't have the energy left to do it. She's naughty all the time whatever we do. She wants constant unremitting attention all the time, there is just no escape from her

Example: Have been applying eczema cream. This is my most hated job. She has turned off the computer, and bitten me twice. She then ran off and went upstairs. Is now sat on the toilet screaming for me to wipe her bottom, which I will not do. She has now been sat there for 15 minutes.

Every little tiny thing is a constant battle all the time. It is like constantly trying to push back a landslide. If she starts I just ignore her, or leave the room. This works as she hates not getting attention more than anything, but it is the unremitingness of it all the time. It never ends. I don't like being with hr, or near her at the moment.

I hate myself for being like this, but she is just so difficult

I have a 6yr old DD, well 7 next week, she's my only kid and I'm a single mum.

I do understand that feeling of not wanting or enjoying being in her company, counting the hours til bed time, feeling you are going to scream the next time you hear "mum, Mum, MUMMMM" and how bad it makes you feel when you think that way too - not quite the perfect mommy I like to (try to) be!

I'd say you need to look after yourself, stop hating yourself (it's normal!) and do whatever you need to do to get your patience back to approach it all in a level headed, strategic manner. Take a breath, get some space....... set small goals and go one step at a time.

On a wider level, I'm no expert on what do on a disciplinary level. Has she always been like this, is something else going on in her life at the moment, what is she like at school?

She's always been like this. We have sanctions etc, but as soon as you get on top of one thing, another thing appears, then it has become entrenched before you realise what has happened. She sort of steals a march on you. so we have to start all over agin, with more sanctions.

We have done everything, rewars, 123 magic, parenting the defiant child, but it is just so exhausting keepiong it up all the time. I feel I can never relax and enjoy her because we have to be on top of her behaviour every minute.

She's angelic at school, they always are, there was a thread on here last week about this sort of child.

I was a single mum to my ds. It was easier to parent him alone, than to parent dd with two parents

Dear Orange,
it sounds like the battles are...well, how should I put it. Yours? I was going through this with my DS until he was about 5. Our home turned into constant battle ground, from early morning on, he would be demanding, me resisting, him defiant, or I would be demanding, him, resistant, just constantly. Then I realised the problem was really not him. It was me. I wanted him under control, make my life most comfortable and stopped seeing him as a small person with complex emotions and lack of knowledge. As a result, in my defiance, resistance, demands I turned into an equal with him -- into a five year old. I could not carry on like this. I was just constantly feeling I am unable to keep my patience, I was unable to function with him, I frequently did not want to have him near me. It had to stop, and I had to change my whole way with him.

I was helped in realising my problem by a few books that changed my whole approach. I can see the books you have been using are of a particular type, i.e. emphasising the same pattern where the mother is the one who has to be in control, and the authors are giving them tools or justifications how to gain that control. It is worth recognising that rewards are just the same as punishments in that they belong to an authoritative, controlling kind of parenting. I suggest you look at one very helpful book "Helping young children flourish" by Aletha Solter (if you do not mind reading, there are also books by Thomas Gordon which have helped many, and there might be Parent Effectiveness Training opportunities available www.gordontraining.co.uk/ where you live.)

I found the approach offered by Solter very liberating and it has, slowly, started to mend our relationship. There is less defiance, less resistance, more cooperation -- but perhaps more importantly to start off with, it has freed me from this need to constantly control him, through a daily, excruciating battle. It really eats one's soul, I can so relate to your desperation.

It helps to to take a step back and start thinking differently. It does not mean you stop setting limits: on the contrary, I do so now much more efficiently. I set the requirements clearly and in a friendly manner. If he protests, I listen to his reasoning, if he offers any, and if it makes sense, we can reach a compromise. But if it is something that cannot be argued with, I do not try to stop his protests. They are only natural - wouldn't you protest when stopped from doing something or expected to do something you did not really want to? It is completely fine and even healthy that they protest. But instead of walking away or admonishing her for protesting, you can accept her feelings by being there, if she lets you hold her, offer her your compassionate embrace. You will find that over time she will learn to express her emotions in a more acceptable way and that there will be less standoffs as she feels safe to be emotional with you. THis is what I am now starting to see. It has taken a few months, but to be honest, the way you are describing your current life, it looks like it leads to simply worse standoffs and, in the future, a broken, unhealthy relationship.

Good luck!
M

Oh, btw, wiping their bottoms -- there seems to be something with children's ability to reach behind themselves. THink of how they cannot put their coats on in the way us adults do, until they have reached certain age :) It might be the same thing with bottom wiping (not that I have any evidence to show but seems logical). It is a struggle and she might in fact need help, or at least that you explain why you won't help her.

Also, ANY pressure tends to lead the growing individual into resistance mode. I stopped trying to get my DS wiping his own butt and as soon as I liften the pressure, he became much more willing to try doing it himself. What else can you do? Raze her personality to the ground in those battles? I was on the verge of doing this and now I so regret every battle I had with him...

Now, this is very interesting. Yes I agree these battles are my own, but I battle them because I feel I should, not because I want to. But also I feel if I don't take some sort of stand she will swallow me whole

I have tried the approach you are talking about, and it is the time when we are at our most harmonious, but then the relentless deamnds start up again, or the behaviour slides, and I have to fight back to carve out some space for me, and this is what it is all about.

Dd would have dh and I running round after her 24 hours a day, and we cannot survive like that, we have to have some time to ourselves

You mention dh, how does she relate to him, is it the same pattern of behaviour? And how is her relationship with your older son? Just trying to figure out if her attitude towards you is unique? Also, how is her sleeping, does she sleep through?

Yes she relates to him.She prefers me because I am easier with her (but tbh he isn't particularly hard on her), but I also think I understand her much more than him, because she us very very similar to me when I was little. But I have to say neither of us are particularly controlling, or strict disciplinarians, we are pretty easy come easy go on the whole.

Her realtionships with other people are all excellent, she is delightful, charming and just really lovely, as she can be with us....but we also get the dark side. Her school comment on how independent she is but we see no evidence of this. Her sleep is crap, and always has been ever since day 1. She is more of an owl than a lark. She often wakes up at night.

She can be so lovely she breaks my heart. But mostly she she is bad tempered, grumpy,(she will often volunteer that she feels grumpy) and inconsistent. Even when she is happy she still wants all your attention all of the time.I often feel I break her spirit and crush her and I hate that feeling, but I have to fight for my survival too.

The one thing I hate is shouting. I hate it. I am a teacher, I know shouting neve rever works. ButI am pushed into it, to fight for space.

Hi,

I can relate to you op. I have a ds just like your dd. He has always been what I call high maintenence. He is very attention seeking and most days I just cannot wait for it to be bedtime. Every day I wake up with the intention that it
will be a better day today but within 5 mins he starts, usually making so much noise that he wakes his sister up which can be as early as 5.30 some days. We have tried the praising when good and ignoring the bad behaviour but even then as soon as you say good boy well done its like a switch to make him do something naughty. He is an angel at school and with adults that he doesnt know very well but is especially bad with us and his grandparents. Unless he has 1 to 1 attention he will do everything possible to annoy and spoil other peoples activities. An example was on sunday we visited grandparents and the cousins were there. DD and the cousins were playing nicely in the garden ds didnt want to play in the garden so basically did what ever he could to spoil the game the children were playing. The children then decided to do drawing and he didnt want to do that either so instead spent the whole time telling his 3 year old cousin that her picture was stupid. We ended up coming home early.

I dont know what the answer is just wanted you to know you are not alone.

I would agree with mayamama. It sounds like the problem is you not her. Not in a bad way , just that you do not have the energy to implement the positive parenting strategies that work the best. Can you make a plan so you get a chance to refuel a bit? Maybe take a step back and have a read of the books suggested? I have also read 'helping young children flourish ' and can really recommend it . Also google the hand in hand parenting website and have a read of some of the articles there which have some good ideas. I think that walking out of the room when your child is upset is not a very good idea - it sends the message that your love is conditional on her good behavior and it will just escalate problems even more because she feels upset at your rejection. It sounds like you have had some success at parenting well and you just need to find a way to get the energy to do it more consistently

I hate the walking out of the room thing . It totally destroys me, but it is the only thing that works without fail. But sometimes, I have to get out, just to get away from the incessant emands which is slightly different.

Cassgate, I can only sympathise. I look at my dd and feel it is my fault she is so naughty, but ds is totally different, and yet he was treated in the same way

I try and console myself that the stubborness and defiance, will turn into assertiveness and persistence when older, which are good qualities. In fact, I think these sort of kids grow into fantastic adults. I kind of like the idea that my dd will be unconventional, lively, assertive and strong when older, it's just the young bit that's so hard.

I hope you are right and that you will also have a fantastic relationship with that strong willed young lady.

Just to clarify, however - you keep using the term naughty, whilst also saying that you have tried the kind of non-authoritarian parenting paranoid and myself were suggesting you to try. It does not really go together. The parent cannot see a child as naughty if s/he takes a non-authoritarian approach. Perhaps you have missed something despite having practiced it? I know it is silly to base my impression on one small detail but simply the way you describe your DD does not match.

You menton that walking out of the room "works without fail" - in what sense, could you clarify?

Also - you mention she is mostly grumpy etc. Tbh, this signals to me that there is something really bothering her. She clearly has issues she does not feel safe to talk about, and instead she would show that grumpy little face. Grumpiness is not the same as liveliness and assertiveness, and I am not so sure that letting her grow up grumpy will produce those positive results you are mentioning. Do you think you can get through to her and find out what is the underlying reason for her grumpiness? As long as you just feel knotted about your own time, she probably will not open up. Is there a way that you can find that time for her sometime in the future? Is there a way someone can help you find that time and space for yourself that would help you find the strength to actually support your daugther?

I use the word naughty as a cover all. I don't know how else to describe it. She is not conforming or behaving in an easy way, or in a way that is easy for me to deal with when I am knackered after a full day at work. So she is not being compliant. (I wasn't compliant as a child, and was a rebel when older, even now 25 years down the line there is an unconventional streak in me) Perhaps the word is challenging?

If I walk out, she immediately stops misbehaving (usually anyway)

She says she is grumpy when she is bad tempered. I will ask her why she is grumpy next time, but she is crabby. Perhaps crabby is a better word than grumpy.

She is a carbon copy of me . I don't know how or where to find support. I have been googling about her since he was tiny. She seems to tiny bits of all different syndromes, but not one thing clearly and in your face.

She fits the Highly Sensitive Child closer than any other, these children are marked out by their persistence which is her to a T.

Hmm, well, I do hope it all works out for the two of you somehow.
With children, asking them direct questions about their feelings does not tend to work. Gordon's books and classes give excellent advice on how to get a child to open up, and it probably takes a lot more than one direct question.
Am I right that you yourself are feeling tired in the evening to start off with (perhaps, if you are a teacher, ired of children in particular?), even if she was not "challenging"? If a child senses that and that the parents are not really available to them (how often are you truly available to her?), they are likely to persist in their demandingness. I guess you know you are exaggerating when saying that she would keep you on your feet 24/7 but I can relate to that feeling on some level. I am wondering, however, whether you might be surprised what you find if you kept a log on how much time you really do have for her, I mean, properly, relating and listening to her. I tend to feel I always need more time for my work and myself than is available and such feelings blow the reality out of proportion. CHildren cannot be held responsible, however, for our time management and problems we have with fitting enough "useful" things into our days.

I would definetly read some information to give you some ideas so that you have some options other than walking out the room. It might work in the moment but I think the upset it will cause your daughter will only increase so she will be even more grumpy - perhaps a sign like mayamama said that she is feeling upset about something, and she will feel rejected and unloved when you do that . The times I am about to lose it most are always when I am feeling most tired and drained so I think you have to find a way of replenishing your patience reserves - however works for you - for me it's a nice relaxing bath, or a bike ride or meditation. But I world definetly reccpmend looking deeper at the principles. I agree with mayamama That you are missing something about the whole positive parenting approach if you use tactics such as walking out of the room etc

I have a really 'naughty' 4 yearold too. However, what I have noticed is that there are two ways to deal with it - downward spiral - more and more fights, and behaviour/grumpiness worsening all the time. OR try and break the pattern, and get quality time together - and suddenly I have a different child. Given a couple of hours of cuddles, 1 on 1 (yes, difficult I know), and doing what they want, together, they become a lot more obliging, and I think happier.

It is still the age-old 'give them more attention for being good', but you are trying to find reasons to give them that attention, (even when the being good is marginal), rather than noticing only when they are being naughty.

One of my sanctions is that treats (icecreams, etc for pudding) frequently happen if they are against the wall (read naughty step), so there is some 'natural consequence' for bad behaviour. But I try to give as much 'good' attention as I can for just existing - because that's what they seem to really care about.

Sorry awful grammar, very tired.

Um - is tiredness, low blood sugar etc playing a role - my grumpster is a lot worse if tired/hungry, and magically cheers 20 minutes later.

FWIW, I think that a lot of children have some element of this : there's a 7.9 yearold in my other child's class who still shows these behaviours at home.