DS (9) swore at his friend, did I handle this OK?

[DialsMavis]

DS came out if school very subdued yesterday. He told me he needed to tell me something, the school didn't know but he had done something really bad, so knew he had to tell me. He had a silly falling out with his best friend, who then pushed him over. DS told friend to fuck off! This is incredibly out of character and DS said he felt awful about it. I asked him what on earth made him do that.

He said he couldn't control his anger and it frightened him. I told him that it is disgusting behaviour and that I felt ashamed and do should he. He agreed that he does.

I told him the impression I would have of a child who did that, and we discussed whether he would like to be thought of that way. We also talked about how having swear makes a person look stupid and inarticulate as they clearly lack the language ability to express themselves in an appropriate fashion.

I told him I was very disappointed in him and that if he ever does anything like that again there will be a harsh and immediate punishment. Then I left it alone as he had felt bad/scared enough to tell me what he had done in the first place.
I also explained that he needs to learn to control his anger by walking away and counting to 10 etc.

I also spoke to the other child's mum as she had a right to know DS had used that language to her child. Luckily, she really likes DS and knows this is out of character.

I think you were spot on.

It is disgusting to tell someone to fuck off. And none of us want our 9 year olds doing it.

You bollocked him, you explained what you dislike about what he did and you threatened future punishment if he does it again.

Sounds like proper, assertive parenting to me.

I think you over reacted. I particularly don't like the guilt trip element. He felt bad himself which is the really important thing. I would have explained why i thought it was inappropriate, talked to him about how he could stop himself doing it again, walked round to the friend's house for him to say sorry- and give the friend the opportunity to say sorry for pushing him over. Then I would have taken them both for an ice cream, and drawn a line under it.

Where did he hear the phrase, by the way?

At least he didn't twat him one back. Better to tell someone to fuck off than to punch them (which is what a lot of children would have done).

He sounds like a good boy and it's ace that he talk to you about this stuff. Don't destroy that by being too hard on him.

Likewise seeker. I don't like the guilt trip.

Where has he heard the phrase 'fuck off'? all over the place I would think... In the street, on the bus (as i said before), from friends without DC who are not all that good at remembering what is appropriate, on the T.V if he gets up in the evening and we are watching an adult film, at football club- he plays with the big boys because he is very good at football, . I'm not sure you can pull the whole " well where did he hear it then?" thing past about the age of 4 TBH!

Of course DS knows what to do if someone pushes him, He knows to tell the person that he won't play with them if they behave nastily to him, then to walk away and play with someone else. This whole situation was a ball game that got out of hand, it wasn't his friend attacking him, they were friends again long before the end of lunchtime play. I wouldn't have been shocked or surprised or pulled the Mary Whitehouse routine if I has heard that he and friends had been saying norty words to each in the playground-par for the course IMO, just don't get caught. I don't think his friends were shocked because they had never heard the words before, more at the context.

We have talked about this again today, instigated by DS. As he went out with the same friend and his family on Fri evening and he said he got the same feeling during a game of football (playing with different friends)... he thinks it is competitiveness/frustration that makes him feel out of control- i have no experience of this, being the least competitive or sporty person I have ever met! I told him well done for identifying what makes him feel out of control and well done for controlling himself.

I do take on board the comments about the guilt thing and I will bear them in mind, I don't want to be that sort of parent. But, at the same time I do think it was very bad behaviour and I will be very cross if he does it again.
I don't use shame as a parenting techniques. But, I do think in some situations DC do need to know how horrid their behaviour has been. I would feel OK about letting them know how disappointed I was in them and how badly they had behaved. For example if DS ever bullied someone, stole or was involved in animal cruelty I would feel like this.

I would also like to make clear that I never told DS I was ashamed of him, or that he was disgusting. But that his behaviour was.

Can I ask again what you would all honestly think about a 9 year old who shouted "fuck off" in peoples faces? because I cannot believe that you would not be pretty shocked and possibly hold a different opinion of the child for a while. I do not want that for my lovely DS.

Goodness, that was an epic post... sorry!

It still sounds to me as though you handled it well. It obviously bothered him that he had done it, which is the most important thing. He knows that it was wrong and he has asked for your help - all good.

Nobody is saying that you should have let it go. But, particularly considering his own feelings about what he said, I do think that you need to give him a break now. Presumably he's said sorry to his friend and they are friends again?

I think you over reacted, hugely and if you do that, he will stop talking to you.

He told you.

He already knew it was 'bad'.

He and the boy had made up.

I would have just discussed other techniques for dealing with his anger and praised him for owning up and knowing it wasn't a nice thing to do.

I would also have wanted to know if he was OK with the situation with his friend or if I needed to have a word with the kids Mum (re the pushing). You seem to have pretty much ignored that HE was pushed over :(

I would be far more 'against' a child pushing another child over than a child responding to that by saying 'fuck off' tbh.

You seem far more concerned about 'what the neighbours/friends/school' might think than your sons feelings and his situation. It's a bit sad reading it tbh.

Thing is, your son was pushed over. An angry response was appropriate.

And there's nothing wrong with feeling aggressively competitive here and there.

Seeker: it's all forgotten, as I said in my first post, I told him he mustn't do it again (and why) and that if he did do it again there would be big trouble.

I am slightly shocked that my parenting would make people feel sad. I expect however, that DS would feel much sadder if he got a reputation for being trouble and as a consequence stopped being invited to lots of lovely activities with his friends. I possibly may be slightly more worried than I should be about what others may think for 2 reasons: firstly, I would judge a 9 year old for behaving like that, and may try and lessen my DCs exposure to them, but I clearly in a minority.

Also, DS recently started the school (which is tiny) in
Year 4 as we moved from another part of the country. All of the other parents ( who have been lovely and very welcoming) have known each other since their DC were in the attached nursery.

I am at a complete loss, how I have failed so miserably in some posters eyes regarding the shoving.
As I have explained throughout this thread: DS knows to ask people to stop if they are behaving in a way he isn't happy with, & to walk away if they carry on, the boys were best friends again almost immediately and I discussed the situation with the other boys mum, so that she was aware. Is that really not enough? Little boys do push and shove each other on the sports field. They get extremely carried away... It's natural, the prefrontal cortex doesn't fully develop to allow them to inhibit these urges until much later. These are bunch of nice kids, who are obviously beginning to push boundaries. I wanted to nip this from DS in the bud. But, as I have also said, I fully take on board comments about my language causing guilt trips. I am a pass agg so and so.

I would certainly not judge a boy swearing in response to being pushed over. I would not suggest that my ds's avoid him. As you say most children will have heard words like this from starting school. I would avoid children who were swearing regularly and generally foul mouthed but in a situation such as your ds was in I don't think what he did was any worst than the other boy.

think your reaction was bit bizarre - would have been more concerned about friend pushing him over - making him apologise to children who heard him swearging seems slightly mad to me.... would worry you setting him up to be mocked tbh..

I didn't make him apologise to people who heard him swearing . DS had already apologised to friend and to all that heard. It is a discipline technique used at his school, nothing to with me. I will ask the teacher if it encourages mockery, I always think it is rather sweet and positive rather than just punishment. If they are rude to people, they have detention, but use that time to write an apology. If they disrupt the class, they apologise to their peers for disrupting their learning, etc.

DS started madly apologising to all that heard, because A) he had shocked them (& himself) a bit and B) he didn't want them to grass him up! I assume that the teacher would have been extremely angry.

Some posters have insinuated that I am as good as damaging my DS. I find it hard to imagine why he would absolutely shit himself at the thought of his teacher finding out (she is not a dragon, and he likes her), but quite happily tell me what he had done and then come to me the next day to discuss it further (when he knew that in my eyes it was already forgotten) if I am some sort of mentally abusive twat.

I will also repeat once again that he and his friends have been known to push and shove each other fairly often when playing football/rugby (DS being just as guilty as others in this respect) I thought that was fairly common, but swearing not so much. Clearly, it is not common as so many posters are shocked about it. Really? none of your 9 year olds get a bit carried away with the shoving, or maybe a cheeky elbow, when playing ball games?

I would only intervene if one child was being picked on, but that isn't the case, they all give as good as they get and don't see it as an issue.

Personally I would save strong language like "disgusted" for really disgusting behaviour- otherwise you might find yourself left with nowhere to go. A firm calm "I am sure you realise that was unacceptable" would have met the case imo. Also, I would try to use "disgusting behaviour" rather "disgusted with you".

Otherwise you seem to have handled it fine. And it is a good sign that he relies on your for his moral support.

But I think you will find that many people (and schools) these days do worry more about behaviour that can actually do physical (or emotional) damage. A change for the better imho: not that I want dcs to swear, but I have always thought it odd that my parents let me get away with really quite nasty bullying of my elder brother (making him feel inferior because he was not so clever) but went absolutely haywire when they once heard me use a very mild swearword (and this was after I had been riled for hours by
another sibling- which they had said nothing about); I felt even at the time that they had their priorities wrong.

I think you over egged the guilt trip side of it.

Experimenting with swearing is to be expected and helping your child understand why its wrong etc and what the words mean is important.

I'd be super proud of your son - because at the end of the day he made a mistake. He came to the right conclusions by himself and genuinely felt bad - well done to your lad.