Is anyone going to such great lengths, but getting few results?

[Consort]

I'm trying desperately to get my 4 month old to do more than cat nap. She used to sleep for quite a while in the sling and I could do things around the house, or even go out. Not once, not ever have I succeeded in getting her to take a proper nap in her bassinet. In recent weeks she really just wants to look around when I have her in the sling. The only way I have got her to nap lately at all is to walk, walk walk the pram around and around and around the park. But it is more a case of her sleeping for 20-30 minutes then me walking her for another half hour, fruitlessly, to get her back to sleep. She is pretty good natured but I keep reading that she needs more than a cat nap for her growth and development, and that not enough sleep could even impact brain development.
At night it takes me several hours of bath, feed, holding her to get her to sleep and she's up 4-5 times per night to feed. She gets 10 hours or less of sleep, on average so she needs naps if she is to get anywhere near the recommended 14 hours per day for her age.
Please help. Anyone else gone through the same? If you did, did you ever get your baby to sleep longer? Or did you find your baby was fine with so little sleep? My dad says I didn't sleep at all in the day but I think he probably just doesn't remember...
Any advice or your own anecdotes appreciated. I am truly frustrated.

Hi, I really feel for you! It is so stressful when you are working so hard to get babies to sleep and all you get is 20 mins out of them.

It has to be said all babies are different and some really do seem ok on little sleep, but if your dc seems tired or grumpy then I would persevere. Good sleep tends to breed good sleep. I always think the first nap of the day is vital to set the scene for the day so try and get them down 1.5 hours after waking and then try for a nap after every 1.5hours of being awake. This should stop them getting overtired and make it easier to drop off.

My 4 mo dd naps in the sling and I either pull her hood over her eyes or tuck a muslin over her head to stop her getting distracted. She normally has a couple of short naps and one long one over lunch that I have to work at to keep her sleeping (ESP as I have two older ds who always wake her!).

Good luck and try not to be too hard on yourself you are doing a great job.

Same issue here. Used to nap fabulously in the sling. Now I walk with him in the sling but he either sleeps only after half an hour or more walking and then only for half an hour, or he falls asleep when I'm 2 minutes from home (it is uncanny - it doesn't matter how many hours I've been walking for!). I'm getting too tired to keep walking for 4+hrs a day for such little napping in return.

He's never slept for 14hrs a day and he does seem tired and upset quite often but just won't sleep.

At night he's up every couple of hours (more frequently between 5am and 7am).

Arghhh!

Really hope someone comes along with a nice, simple and effective solution!

Stop stressing about getting her to sleep! She will sleep as much or as little as she needs to, honestly She is still very young and still settling in to routines too.

Yes, sleep deprivation can harm or even kill you...... if you are kept awake forcefully for days/weeks on end, which is not the case with your DD of course!

Some babies don't sleep much, they just don't need it. I have 4 dc, and none has ever slept the 12 hours at night and 2 naps a day that the baby books said - I was very suspicious of anyone who said their babies slept 7pm -7am!

Since about 6months, my 18mo DS4 has slept either 8pm to 6.45am (if no nap), or 10pm -6.45am (if he has a nap in the afternoon). This was typical of his older 3 brothers too, from about 6months old. But I wouldn't say they were "bad sleepers" as this was their normal routine and once asleep, they stayed asleep till morning.

DS1 was the most wakeful, from about 18 months to 5years he slept 10pm-5.30/6am every night (no naps), we would put him in his room at a normal bedtime and he'd read/play quietly (well not always quietly!), but not sleep till 10pm. He is 18yo and 1st year student at Oxford, so I think we can safely say his brain development was not damaged by lack of sleep Provided you DD is getting the amount of sleep SHE needs, it's not going to harm her.

My friends 2 sons both slept 7pm-7am and 2 naps from a few months old -exactly like the books said - I was very and doubtful but they did!

And op, if your dad said you "never slept in the day", maybe he's right! I do wonder if it's down to genetics, at least in part, how much they need to sleep, My mum says I was a very wakeful baby too.

I agree with Scotch. I spent hours trying to get my LO to take longer naps. It just wasn't how he was built. He was still having 3 40 minute naps a day at 6 months. he moved to one long nap by a year old, and now at nearly three he still naps for about an hour after lunch. Nothing I did made much difference. The best thing I ever did was work out how he wanted to sleep (i.e. short naps) and accept it.

Dd1 was exactly the same. She didn't sleep in the day at all. She was 4 mos the first time she fell asleep during the day and I was convinced there was something terribly wrong with her.

All babies are different. I was the same as you and spent many hours trying to persuade her to sleep. In hindsight we were both far happier if I didn't bother. What worked best was just to go out, get on with our lives, and then she could catnap on the car or sling if she felt like it.

Scotch, how do you know if they're getting enough sleep? I ask because my ds seems very unhappy and tired quite often, but won't sleep.

What gets him to sleep seems to vary each time - used to be the sling without fail, also feeding to sleep, but now they don't work every time. If I just chill and go with it, without trying hard to get him to nap, he ends up having meltdown after meltdown...

Have you tried a snooze shade? My DS is a real nosey parker sleep fighter and I find in invaluable when out in the pram. I wait for him to show his tired signs and then pop it over and he falls asleep in no time. If he doesn't fall asleep he at least gets time out with no stimulus which I'm guessing has to be the next best thing?! He also will stay asleep far longer as it acts like a black out blind. Doesn't help with naps in the cot of course but it's been a real sanity saver to know at least he's getting some sleep. Here's a link (hope this works) www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0039NQ3TW

Beginnersluck - Well, they were not crabby or overtired unless something upset their own sleep schedule, so I'd say that they got as much sleep as they needed.

If they were ill/teething they would be as you describe your DS.

I agree with HODGE, if they are obviously tired, blackout blinds are great (with-out them my DS would be up at the crack of dawn!).

Can you feed to sleep?

Consort, no advice just sympathy. I have a four month old and she is exactly as you describe. I worry all the time that she isn't getting enough. I hear about some babies' sleep and I cannot believe how much they sleep compared to mine. I think of all the things I could do if DD slept that much and my mind boggles. She's never napped in her cot, not once. I don't really sling her anymore either as she just wakes after 20 or 30 minutes. She does best in the pram if we go out walking mid-morning, but after a biggish nap then it is back to 30 minute kips here and there.
I can't even talk about the nights :(

Brilliant to know that:
a) I'm not alone; and
b) that I may not be damaging my daughter's chances of going to Oxford (or similar) if she gets less than 14 hours sleep a day. Thanks Scotch

klinda thanks for your kind words. It must be quite hard getting DD to nap when DSs are making noise, or maybe she'll gow up to be a sound sleeper as she'll be used to noise around her. Here's hoping.

beginnersluck sorry you are going through the same thing, but maybe we can share what we find that works. I am reading Elizabeth Pantley's book on napping so will share any good tips that I read about. It does sound like your DS needs more sleep if he's having meltdowns. Or could it be teething, as Scotch mentioned? My DD is still pretty smiley even when she is only getting cat naps but she wakes up with red puffy eyes, and often rubs her eyes and yawns throughout the day. I do respond to her sleepy cues and she will sleep in the pram or sling but just the 20 minutes. I've read about babies waking up after 45 minutes. Well I think I'd settle for that!

scotch I think you are right that some babies just don't need as much sleep. I didn't, and maybe DD doesn't either. The difference is I didn't have naps, but slept through the night. DD definitely doesn't sleep through. In fact she only sleeps in 1-3 hour bursts so I'm up with her up to 5 times a night. Sometimes she is awake 1.5-2 hours so awake in equal measure, at times, to how long she has been asleep. That's why I started to be a bit more proactive in trying to get her to nap as I had read that daytime sleep could help nightime sleep. The one time I got DD to take a long morning and afternoon nap was followed by her only waking at 1am and 4am. However, I totally get what you are saying about her being very young still, and still finding her own rhythm. Gong to do my best not to stress. I'll respond to her sleepy cues, bu if she's awake after 20 minutes, well then I'll just enjoy some smiles and cuddles. Thanks for putting things in perspective.

jellymould I think that's what I have to do too. Work out how she wants to sleep and accept it.

hodgie haven't tried a sleep shade, though we did end up getting blackout blinds for our bedroom (DD sleeps in a bassinet next to our bed if we are lucky) so will give that a go. Have seen the same or similar at nearby Tesco so a walk over there is in order tomorrow morning.

Octavia I can and sometimes do feed DD to sleep. Did so this afternoon. There's me boob out like a prisoner on the couch until she awakes. It was only 20 minutes but then my arm had fallen asleep so maybe it was for the best. Haven't managed to feed her to sleep then transfer her to her bassinet, at least not in the day. Does this work for you? Any tips on not waking her when I move her?

fane maybe our girls are two peas in a pod, they certainly seem to be following a similar pattern. I guess we just have to enjoy this time as much as possible. It is hard work though, no? It takes me hours to get DD to sleep and then I don't leave her side as I never know when she'll wake. I've tried using the monitor but invariably I'll just start watching something and she'll cry out. Less frustration to just stay upstairs on the ipad but it does mean sittng in a pitch black room from 7pm to 7am! Not much of a life. I also have a 15 yo DD sitting GCSEs so I'm constantly nagging encouraging her to revise.

Consort, she will start sleeping more at night soon, don't worry - over the next couple of months she will feed more in the day and wake less at night 4 months is still teeny! Easier times are just around the corner

A big baby gap for you too? When DS4 was 7months, DS1 & 2 were sitting Advanced Highers and Highers (similar to A and AS level), so I know how difficult that can be!

You don't have to sit in the dark with her , there's no reason why she can't sleep in a basket in the lounge with you in the evening, the sky won't fall in if she's not sleeping in a bedroom - you could put her in the bedroom when you are ready to go to bed. In my experience very young babies (under a year) sleep better with family life/tv etc going on round about them. Or maybe that's just my kids! Also, I used to put the radio on R4 at a low volume (as it's people talking), as they seem to like the "company".

Don't give up yet! Both mine were reasonable at night from about four or five months, but neither would sleep for longer than 20 minutes at a daytime nap. Then almost overnight, at around 7-8 months, they started sleeping for two hours after lunch. I had done nothing different. DS1 continued to have a 2 hour nap every day until he was three, and DS2 is now 21 months and shows no sign of reducing his. I would say, just keep putting your baby down at roughly the same times each day, with the same routine, and eventually it will come.

I had this with dd1! Getting her to sleep took up to an hour, then she would sleep for 15 mins- it was grim! DH used to drive up and down the motorwy just to get her to sleep (she slept in the car).

Like you, I worried about it. Now, she is 8. My subsequent dc were far easier and much better sleepers. Even now dd1 doesn't sleep as much as I think she should, but she now lies reading in her bed. I was on my own a lot (DH in Navy) and I needed to have set bedtimes and some sort of routine. Eventually she learned to go to bed, if not sleep!

From what your dad says- I was the same, and still am! I don't sleep nearly as much as DH, and am still a night owl, and apparently was the same as a baby- maybe some of us just need to sleep less.

As others have said, try not to worry about it. All you can do is provide opportunities for sleep, if babies really need it they will sleep, if not then there's not much you can do about it. My dd's sleep was very similar to yours at the same age, and it is so exhausting not getting much of a break sometimes isn't it. We ended up cosleeping part of the night (from the first wake up) from about 5 months to 11 months and that did help with the exhaustion for me, as I could feed her half-asleep and she did sleep better with me there. On a hopeful note for you, at around 11 months she just suddenly started sleeping longer (without us doing anything) and now sleeps through the night most of the time - she's nearly 14 months. Daytime naps are still few and far between (a whole 10 minutes today between 6am and 8pm... I kid you not) but I have more energy to keep up with her at least now I'm getting some sleep at night.

I like to tell myself that all the time dd has spent awake and exploring instead of snoozing is good learning time - I know people with very laid-back sleepy babies and personally I'd rather have my little bundle of energy. Hang in there, it will get better and you will get some sleep again one day!

When you've fed to sleep, you do have to wait till they're properly deep asleep (gone floppy, rather than twitching or still making sucking motions) - at that point you can usually transfer them. You do have to have the cot or whatever conveniently close though. Over time you can generally put them down more and more awake. I would definitely recommend always putting down full if possible (ignore the idiot baby whisperer).

Octaviapink I do this and it used to work until she was 12/13 weeks (she's now 16 weeks) but now she is awake after every 30/40 mins regardless of how full her tummy is! It really nearly drove me to breaking point last night. In the end I swaddled her and got a whole 2 and half hours out of her. Not ideal to be swaddling a 16 week old who can roll surely?!
I am now thinking all sorts of crazy things like weaning her off the breast etc. I know it won't make a blind bit of difference but feeling desperate!
(sorry for hijack op)

Stick it out, Fane - 16 weeks is famous for the massive sleep regression you get at this point (just search MN for 16 week sleep regression and see how many threads you find!) - it's a huge developmental and growth spurt and it really disrupts their sleep. Keep going as you have been and things will settle down again in a week or two (or three...).

Octavia you sound about as discouraged as I am. DD was up 5 times in the night and got probably 7 hours sleep in total. So 7 hours of interrupted sleep including being awake 2 1/4 hours in the wee hours of the morning. She's been tired, red eyes, rubbing them, yawning so I thought I would lie down with her in a dark, quiet room, when she had a full tummy, made sure she had her pacifier etc. This routine works a treat at night if I'm having trouble getting her down. I'd had 4-5 hours sleep so happily would have napped with her. Wouldn't even shut her eyes. Then later took her out in the pram to see if could get her some rest. Took ages but she finally fell asleep. Put the snooze shade on (first time I've used it) but still wide awake after 20 minutes. So less than 7.5 hours of sleep in the last 24 for DD. I know adults who don't function well with less than 8, and DD is supposed to have about 14 hours.
So I've downloaded sleep logs from Elizabeth Pantley's website and am going to just log what happens each day
and see if any clues emerge as to how I can help her sleep. I absolutely will not use CIO so have to find the patience to see this through, knowing it could take considerable time. I get hope from those of you who have written that things do get better. I do know that, having an elder daughter, but when you are tired and frustrated, your perspective can go a bit wonky. Thanks to each of you for the encouraging words, though I do feel I am going crazy today!

Sorry that should have read fane instead of Octavia thanks Octavia for feed to sleep advice. Am doing that now. It didn't work in the day today, but usually works at night.

Ok I have a 24 week old so a little ahead. There's a sleep regression around 4/5 months. Have you noticed she gets easily distracted when feeding? Getting to sleep is a challenge...? You might be leaving it too late to nap - go for an hour after waking, so start soothing to sleep after 45 mins. Later naps happen after longer awake times.

Dd, like ds, went through this cat nap phase and I knew it wasn't enough as they looked so tired. I started having more success with an earlier bedtime (dd wants to sleep between 6 and 6.30pm) and napping when walking in the sling with a dummy. If indoors, I play white noise on my phone to cut out noises like my shouty toddler. Works well.

Now she's nearly 6 months, I've been letting her sleep on her tummy and she much prefers it. She naps for longer in the day, sleeps longer at night in her cot. It's odd - like a switch has gone off. With ds I used to stress, I even tried the sleep logs thing but he didn't improve until he was 6 months or so, so with dd I've just got as many cat naps as I could out of her then tried putting her down in the cot as we got past 5 months.

Iggly that has made me feel a lot better. Scotch also pointed out at 4 months she might still be working out her own rhythm, so will try to see the cat naps as a stepping stone. I have been feeling like such a short spurt of sleep couldn't benefit. Will try very hard to go with the flow for now, and start getting her ready for naps sooner. Thank you!

You're welcome. I remember how I felt with ds and I used to get so stressed about his sleep. With dd I'm a bit more relaxed but only with hindsight. As long as you give opportunities for sleep regularly and keep trying things every now and then you'll get there!

Consort keep me posted if you see any improvement and I will do likewise! It is so worrying when you calculate total hours' sleep per 24 and realise how little baby has had despite all efforts.
The waking after 30 mins thing at night has me up the walls. She's currently on her second wake up of the night and DP is up there trying to shush her back. Even if she sleeps she will be awake again in another 30. Just makes me feel so useless. I know she is in the repression for sure (4 weeks and counting) but just worry she won't ever get out of this rut! Thanks to all who say it gets better :)