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Original poster

Lying

27 replies

sansouci · 15/02/2006 10:46

Dd (5) is sometimes a bit "creative" with the truth. This time it's serious. Her gold heart necklace, which I keep in a special jewelry box just for her in my drawer, has gone missing. I asked her about it & she denied touching it. I gave her the benefit of the doubt but now I've realised another bit of jewelry has gone missing. She denies any knowledge of it. But I don't trust her. Her behavior makes me feel quite strongly that she's lying and bluffing. I never would have thought that a five year old could be so cunning. I did manage to trap her into admitting that she did, at one time, put the necklace in one of her little handbags & I saw the look on her face when she realised I had trapped her. I'm sick about this & it's wrecking my relationship with her. I don't care so much about the jewelry; I do care dreadfully that she is such a clever liar. what to do? Please advise!

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charliecat · 15/02/2006 11:08

Last week I saw that my dd had written her name on the radiator cover in her bedroom. She denyed it.
Shes only 5 but its her writing, there was no doubt.
I said LooK, One Day somethings going to happen and your going to want me to believe you, but because youve lied to me before im NOT going to believe you and there will be nothing you say that will convince me.
Once a liar always a liar. DONT.
I have yet to test it out but I do remind them of this every so often.

albatros · 15/02/2006 11:09

sansouci I have the same problem with my dd1 (5) I have on occassons mangaed to shame her into telling the truth by telling her how dissapointed I would be in her if I found out she was lying and how sad that would make me.
The problem I have is knowing how to punish her for lying. eg. She ate all the chocolate christmas decorations and blamed it on her sister who I know didn't as she was in her cot at the time of the crime! however she eventually confessed with tears and guilt and I felt I could not tell her off for taking the choc because it might give the message that if she had continued lying she would have got away with it. This has happened with other things that I am not 100% certain that she has done, and so have not been able to be quite so strong in the fact that she was lying. What do you tell them off for - the crime or the lies?

charliecat · 15/02/2006 11:11

I banned dd from the pens/craft for a week. So the crime I guess.

colditz · 15/02/2006 11:13

How about a two tier punishment system (Sounds horrendous I know!)

I mean, you explain to her "Because you did X, you have lost Y priviledge. But because you lied as well, you have lost Z priviledge too. If you had told me the truth, you would only have lost Y priviledge."

QE2 · 15/02/2006 11:29

Agree with colditz on the 2 tier punishment. very effective. I have always told mine that if they are found to have done something wrong they will be punished for it, but if they lie as well then they will get double the punishment.

Re: the lying - apparently it's a sign of intelligence for a child to lie - not sure how true this is. However I do remember seeing a programme with Sir Robert Winston where in an experiment, just about all of the children lied in response to a question. So I think it is not unusual and doesn't necesserily mean they will always lie about things.

Key thing is to always be consistent and encourage kids to tell the truth by distinguishing between punishing for wrong doing and then punishing for lying as per the 2 tier thing.

madmarchhare · 15/02/2006 11:35

I used to work with a bloke who 6 year old was a real story teller. Amongst many others, she told her teachers at school that her grandad had died on one of the 9/11 planes.

So what do you do when there isnt a crime as such, just a lie?

lazycow · 15/02/2006 11:37

Well I certainly remember lying to my mum. Yet at the same time I also remember being really annoyed and indignant when I was telling the truth and she didn't believe me. You can't really win lol

I think a two tier punishment system seems a good idea though as practical way forward.

Pinotmum · 15/02/2006 11:41

I too have a 5 yo dd. Just before Xmas she began to lie ALL THE TIME. I over reacted and got really cross with her but then backed off a little and started to remove treats etc for lying. She would tell friends they could come for tea and then there would be a showdown in the playground when I said I hadn't agreed to it and her freind would be upset and she would be livid. I wouldn't give in becuase this was rewarding her lies. I also told her I found it hard to believe the truth now as she was lying so much and this upset her. She used to smile when she lied and would say I'm not lying I'm just happy -grrr!! She doesn't lie as much now but she still tells some whoppers. I thought it got easier as they got older

Pinotmum · 15/02/2006 11:44

I have also told dd that though I would be disappointed if she did something "wrong" I would be really cross if I found she lied and she understands this. When I'm really cross she goes to bed early without stories and she hates this.

Original poster
sansouci · 15/02/2006 20:15

The problem is that I have no concrete proof she's lying. It's just a mummy-gut-feeling thing. I know her so well. I've been miserable for so long over this that I called the paed for an appointment. Ha. He can give me one in March. Yeah, right! As if that's any use. So it's up to MN to help (?!) I like the 2-tier punishment idea but as I have no real proof... dh says "innocent until proven guilty" but I know she's lying!

OP posts:
soapbox · 15/02/2006 20:25

Sansouci - am I being thick???

Why on earth would a paed be of any use [baffled emotion].

I think you are making way too much of this - young children tell lies - that is just how it is.

If you catch them lying you punish them for it - but I think it is a rocky road to start implying that you don't trust them anymore. If for example a child is being abused a clever abuser might say, 'there;s no point telling your mother because they will never believe you, they will beleive me'. If she has even an inkling that that might be true then she might not tell, when it is very important that she does.

I would rather give my children the benefit of the doubt 1000 times than risk missing the crucial time that they were telling the truth!

Most lies really don;t matter! If she has lost her necklace then she is the one suffering the loss.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 15/02/2006 20:29

Agree with soapbox.

You cant stop children lying, but you can encourage honesty and also "coming clean". I think you the suggestions of punishment etc you have had will help you to do this.

Eowyn · 15/02/2006 20:37

Well I am reassured to read this as my dd is 5 & has completely convinced me of complete lies in last few months, can't remember what about now but it is the fact that she gets so adamant when I question her & continues to lie when I encourage her to admit she is "telling a story" etc that gets me down.

She has also promised not to lie any more but doesn't seem to take it seriously no matter how much I explain the "boy who cried wolf" thing.

She is otherwise lovely & I'm a gullible type who believes her normally but now I doubt a lot.

But I have assumed it is part of growing up & reading this reinforces that especially if all our little liars are 5.

She gets very upset when being reprimanded which makes punishment difficult.

Original poster
sansouci · 15/02/2006 20:40

Thank you, Eowyn. It's breaking my heart but if I know it's just a "stage", I can handle it. I talked to my mum about it on the phone for an hour yesterday & it was her idea to phone the paed. Apparently they mend the body so why not the mind, etc. I am desperate. Maybe I should back off.

OP posts:
soapbox · 15/02/2006 20:42

My DD used to lie a lot about things that she wanted to have happened.

So she'd say she got a mention at assembly or her work was up on the wall etc. The frequency was a give away - no other child would have had a look in

As soon as I realised this, I used to respond to her 'story' with 'is that what you wished had happened' which she always admitted. In time the stories just petered out, once she had grasped the concept of teachers being fair and having to let every child have a spell in the sun

Life is hard for our littlies some times - they are learning a lot of life lessons, and sometimes these really hurt!

batters · 15/02/2006 20:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

batters · 15/02/2006 20:44

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

soapbox · 15/02/2006 20:44

Sansouci - I don;t think paed;s do behavioural stuff. They would only look at it if there were other developmental issues as well. In which case a developmental paed might be able to help.

It is just a phase - perfectly lovely children come out the end of this difficult phase - I promise you

VeniVidiVickiQV · 15/02/2006 20:44

My DD, who will be 3 in april has just started lying. Eg "daddy - look! Scratch." "how did that happen DD?" "Mummy done it" !

or "Why is the playdough all over the floor DD?" "Daddy done it" etc etc.

goldstarlover · 15/02/2006 20:45

I would tell her that if she is going to take things and lie about them then she won't have any more nice things.

goldstarlover · 15/02/2006 20:46

i mean tell her that you won't get her any more nice things if she keeps doing it

Eowyn · 15/02/2006 20:47

I would worry more if it continues long-term than at the moment, they are growing up & learning so much at the moment maybe it's some sort of testing thing.

I think just be very clear about the lie not being acceptable & I think the 2-tier punishment sounds like a good idea. Maybe we should reconvene in a year...

Original poster
sansouci · 15/02/2006 20:53

My mum said "if she's like this now, what will she be like in 10 years", yada-yada-yada. Of course I'm dreading the teens. I was dreadful.

I confess that I went & bought dd another heart necklace which is now hidden in the boot of the car. I bought it when I believed I had wrongly accused her & that I was the one who lost it when she had to take it off for her ballet lesson. But now that something else is missing, I am disappointed & confused. In the boot it will stay, meanwhile!

It's not the necklace, it's the lying. Dh wonders (jokingly) if she's flogging the stuff in the school playground! She came home with the equivalent of 20p the other day, telling me a friend from school gave it to her. Why would she give you money? I asked. don't know, replies dd.

I need a holiday.

OP posts:
Eowyn · 15/02/2006 21:02

That reminds me of one of dd's: she has a little photo of me & her in her coat pocket (from when she started school) & one day came home very upset cos she'd lost it.

I tried to find another as she was crying but later found out she'd got a new hair grip which a friend had given her for no known reason. A few days later she said her friend had found the photo & she had it back but next time I saw her friends mum I discovered that she had actually swapped the photo for the hair grip, since returned, & when the mum found out she suggested my dd should really have it back...

I hadn't a clue about all that, found it quite perplexing. Many chats with dd later.. the lieing isn't too frequent & usually ridiculous stuff about her teachers but I do feel mean when I refuse to believe her.

Don't worry too much tho, your mum's comment reminds me of what a midwife said when I failed at breastfeeding "if you can't control her now what are you going to do when she's 12".
Not very helpful.

blueshoes · 15/02/2006 22:07

VVVQV, my dd (2.4) does the same kind of lies - sort of tattletale ones with absolutely no basis. I think she is just acting out in her mind similar conflicts she experiences in nursery.

I imagine 5 year olds would have very active imaginations which they might like to "act out" in real life. So perhaps they don't see lying the same way we do. They are just turning a concept over in their heads. So I would be loathe to punish and might even play along (Sansouci, saying things like what a lovely necklace and what a shame that is has gone missing, how could it walk away when it does not have feet?), with ample opportunity for her to come clean. And if she does not , unless you have got solid proof, agree with soapbox that it is not worth punishing.

And if your dd did come clean, to make her feel really good about it.