Why does bedtime have to be such hell? Help? <don't make me beg>

[MrsNouveauRichards]

Pretty please someone tell me what to do?

I find myself having to come downstairs as I am in serious danger of losing my temper.

DD is 4yrs, always been a good sleeper, but likes to read/play for a while when she first goes up to bed.

DS is 21 months and is not a bad sleeper (now) but literally keeps going til he is ready to drop. He is in a bed already due to his amazing climbig skills. He is also prone to a bedtime poo.

They share a room because they have to. It is taking over 2hrs and several bribes/threats/punishments until they finally are quiet.

We have tried putting DS to bed first and DD going up when he is asleep, but as he is not falling asleep soon enough, she isn't getting enough sleep. We tried putting her in our bed to read/wind down but she doesn't like that and makes a fuss. We can't put her to bed first as he disturbs her.

I can't drug them can I?

Can DD do her reading and playing (in PJs) elsewhere (and earlier so that when she goes to bed, she's ready to sleep and gets enough sleep), and put DS to bed a bit earlier so that he can rampage around his cot/bed until he's ready to drop, so they're both ready for bed a bit earlier (but don't realise it). Then put them to bed, kiss goodnight and a 'see you in the morning'. Don't go back in (unless it's for poo, of course!), and ignore, ignore, ignore. That's what I'm doing to my eldest two (5 and 3) currently. Perfectly happy chattering away, then every now and then one of them wails because their duvet's fallen on the floor, or they've drunk all their water. I don't give in and they sort it out but maybe that's because I'm a mean old fart and am knackered :o

Hmmmm I would put the little one to bed a good hour before the 4yo, so he could go to bed at 6.30pm say am making this up as a go along then make a big deal about how your dd is such a big girl that she can stay up later as long as when she goes to bed she is quiet and stays there. So then she would go up about 7.30pm.

Would that work?

I generally ignore, but most nights I have to go up because DD has pushed her brother off of the bed and he is crying.

She is now sat on the stairs after I found her smacking her brother. She is actually quite nice to him most of the time, somehow bedtime brings out the demon in both of them.

DS has a nap in the afternoons (in the car) and I have decided to bring it forward so it is directly after lunch and he is awake no later than 3pm. Also decided not to let them watch any telly in the afternoon until after dinner and bath, in the hope they will be glued to it and it will calm them.

It has been gradually getting worse and tonight I have finally decided enough is enough!

I took them to softplay for nearly 3hrs last week (after DS nap) and they were still awake at 8.45pm. DS was sobbing with tiredness, but DD was winding him up.

Do you apply normal daytime sanctions to her when she's naughty? We do a smiley/sad face chart thing and threaten sad faces (in fact you've just reminded me, so I've just shouted up the stairs to turn out the light and be quiet or a sad face - light's off and it's gone quiet - I'll report back to let you know if it's worked...) :)

Girlie, that is what we did in the beginning, but DS is refusing to sleep and DD is getting worse.

:(

How long does your DS nap for in the day? Is it worth trying to cut it shorter or cut it out? Or would that be unbearable?

Do you have a set bedtime routine?

Bath, p.js, glass of milk, teeth, story and into bed with lights out and soothing music on is how it works here!

I think with the little one you are probably suffering a little bit as he was out the cot quite early so not so eaisly contained! I think divide and conquer is still the way forward. Work on getting the lo sorted first, so have the routine stick to it with military precision and every time he gets up out of bed just put him straight back with no communication.

Once he is sorted then do the same with dd!

Good luck it sounds like you could do with a nice big glass of and breathe!!

He definitely needs his nap, and I need him to nap.

Yes, we do have a bedtime routine, but like I say, things have got gradually worse. I thought that perhaps it was down to DS napping too late and mking the evenings worse.

But I have no idea what to do.

DD is at preschool in the mornings, so can't sleep in and will be starting reception in September, so needs to sleep.

My plan is to get a bit tough. I let my temper get away from me, and take it personally that they won't sleep. I need to be strict but a bit detached about the whole thing. Perhaps take them out for more exercise.

I would definately limit the nap, no more than 45mins max.

Strict but detached sounds good to me and never take anything the kids do personally!!!!

Sadly, I need him to have at least 90mins, but I think if we do plenty when he is awake and really start limiting telly then hopefully it will have the same effect.

I get so wound up with them and feel like they are trying to ruin my evening. Which is daft really, and I know that, but DS is so full on, I need some time in the evenings to actually get some housework done and to have a sit down.

Thanks for listening to me have a moan

That's what we're here for.

I think being more detached is the right way to go. You do need a break, and a . Do try the "good night" and then go. (Unless of course she's pummelling her little brother) :o / :(

This WILL pass. Honestly.

Can you tell them you'll take away some of their toys or say "no TV" until they go to sleep better them follow through with your threat the next day if they misbehave? No treats at all the next day, kind of thing.

Today's plan is....

Firstly, on DD's reward chart there were some sad faces instead of smiley faces, she knows why they are there and they will be a visual reminder (i hope!)

DS had a short nap before lunch as we were out in the car. That is it for naps today ( I will not do this usually as it really doesn't work for us on a normal day)

The telly was on before school, this is it until after dinner/bath etc, they can play/draw/read and hopefully when the telly goes on it will having a calming, switching off effect.

Last of all, I shall give them dinner then I am out until 7.30ish, so DH is in charge of the calming, getting ready for bed bit, so I won't have it all to do myself.

I shall report back later....

waiting for news and hoping it went better than me with my three tonight - just yelled up the stairs like a grumpy old fart

Only the once? :o

I actually left DH to put to bed this evening. He is calmer than me and doesn't take it personally having not been with them all day.

He said they were much better at calming down when the telly went on for Charlie and Lola and then ITNG, and DS was happy to go to bed and have a story. When I got home at 7.45pm he had just fallen asleep and DD was getting ready to go up.

She has only just gone to sleep after a slight concern that her duvet was going to eat her :o

Stop putting them to bed mid-afternoon and it will sort itself.

Firstly, it is only ds who naps, and secondly, he does it in the car and going out in the afternoons in the car are non-negotiable unfortunately.

Talking to DH this evening, we think it is worth getting into the routine we will need come September where we will need to be home again by 2.45 to pick DD up from school, so nap will be brought forward. Some days he has not been going to sleep til 2.30 as we have been at home too long.

Going to see how we get on. He is so ridiculously full on he needs to nap, the biggest problem is the sharing a room, they wind each other up and stop each other sleeping.

bonsoir -MrsNR has already said she can't not let the nap happen for her DS, and that's not always the one-and-only solution anyway.

MrsNR I think you and your DH's plan to concentrate on the routine is the right route. But don't get bogged down with following the exact same thing every night, as once you get a routine that works, it can be scary to waiver from it because you're afraid it'll all go tits up again. Believe me, I know! :o

You can look at dropping the naps for DS as he will be 2 so may not need them,

We used to sign and play in the car to keep one of them awake, annoying nursery rhyme cd chipmonks that sort of thing.

I think bringing the bedtime forward would work better for you if you can manage it.

I only clicked on your thread because DD3 has turned into a nightmare at bedtime so I'm looking for help but the only difference is she is normally settled by 7.30-7.45 at the very latest, we start bedtime at 6.45

It really tries my patients, especially after all day at work but once she has calmed down as is happy that her bed won't disdappear, her dragon won't make her fly any where and the story was actually quite nice, she tells me she is very sorry for screaming and shouting mummy and she promises never to do it again...... llittle shit

:o

I think if they were in separate rooms, it wouldn't be an issue. Ds could be left to potter around, pull toys out climb up to look out of the window etc without winding his sister up, and she could read or play or whatever without ds climbing on her.

Bloody kids :o

I would actually keep the nap. I would go slightly insane with them napping ATM ( eldest 2.5).
Just make sure hes awake by 3pm latest ( or 2.30 if more convinent for you, so roughly 12.30/1 pm until 2.30pm

I really do think little ones get overtired and need a nap.

Make sure he walks as much as possible and buggy less,. Personally re tv I would let the. Have an hour before bath etc as that is beginning of bedtime routine. So say tv on whilst you sort dinner, then 6pm start bath stories etc with you yougest

Maybe get something that you can do with eldest alone as a treat when brother is asleep. Stickers/ reading/ drawing together

Ds does definitely need a nap, he fell asleep yesterday morning in the car and dropped off in the buggy this morning - luckily only 5 mins.

DD gets to either have a story, play a game on cbeebies website or do some of her sticker book after Ds goes to bed and it has worked well, but ds now thinks he is missing out so doesn't go to sleep. We thought having them go to bed together would help that and it did for a bit, but now they are winding each other up.

New routine seems to be ok though. Ds having an earlier nap seems to suit him and not having the telly on means they are playing together which is nice (mostly) there is no quick fix though unfortunately!

Actually, just had a bit of a lightbulb moment! Just realised that the problems really have been since the weather has been so awful!

Oh yes we went to Polarn o pyret or whatever it's called and raided heir rainwear all in one selection. Both 10 month old and 2.5 year old have now been out everyday playing in the muddy field! More washing but Definatley tires them and is current favourite activity!

Yes, we have a set of their waterproofs - amazing.

The lightbulb moment came while watching the dcs jumping across the room onto sofa cushions and thinking they had a lot of energy :o