What constitutes bad language these days?

[O2BNormal]

I was brought up by old fashioned (even then) parents, we didn't say poo let alone Sh... (see, I still can't say it). Your backside was your bottom, never ever bum.

I remember reprimanding DS1 for referring to his bum when he was in (school) nursery and his response was "the teachers say bum". How standards have slipped!

Anyway it was inset day here yesterday and my parents kindly had DCs. DS1 is now 11 and when I went to collect them Dad told me DS1 had been in a lot of trouble for using bad language in front of mum. Dad's opinion is that there's a time and a place and that DS1 needs to learn that in front of his grandmother is not appropriate. Which I agree with.

But, the "language" involved was the Beans Beans good for your heart...rhyme. I did well not to laugh when I heard. Was I wrong or is my Dad?

I think an 11 year old should know that its not the sort of thing you say in front of your grandparents. My parents are also very formal and my DS (also 11) knows that he has to moderate his behaviour/language in front of the GPs.

I think many of us today forget just how 'casual' and 'informal' life is compared to how previous generations behaved. .

My DM couldn't cope when she took DS to Burger King for lunch (at his request) - she asked for a knife and fork .

Sorry, I seem to be stalking you today O2B

I think it is very unpredictable how people will react to the word you are talking about. I've always thought of it as being very mild indeed - and would probably have laughed as well. But I was surprised to find that a friend of mine finds it very offensive and doesn't allow her (young teen) children to say it. One to be careful of, I think.

To be fair to my Mum Coconutty, it was Dad who made the fuss. My boys can do no wrong as far as their Grandmother's concerned.

My DC are 8 and 6 and know that there are some words you don't use with grandparents, with fart being one of them.

I don't think fart should ever be used. It is vulgar and needlessly offensive.

If we absolutely had to refer to this process, we were taught to call it an "unfortunate eructation." Perhaps he could say that if he must refer to it at all?

You can hardly punish a child when they didnt know the word was 'rude'. I would just have said 'I dont like to hear that word, don't say it again.' I would much prefer fart (isn't that normally seen as the most common name for it?) than pump or trump which I find incredibly childish and irritating. I used to work with someone who refered to it as trumping and I always wanted to say "Trumping? Are you 6?!"

To answer your question, I don't think bloody or hell are swear words, although not entirely appropriate for young children, but have met many teachers who do. I thought bum was looked down on because it was common? I know my GPs always disliked fart, toilet or bum because they were common.

I agree with Wellthen - it seems a bit harsh to punish before warning.

Regardless of that - it's not a word I'd be happy with my ds using either when very young either.

Coconutty I don't want to be rude, and I know I risk being flamed, but I'm a bit surprised you can tell your children off for swearing when you write in the terms you have done. I've noticed a number of posters seem incapable of avoiding the F word - which I still think is far less acceptable than fart or bum or other similar words. I think my Mum was right when she used to tell us that English is such a vast language with so many different words to say just what you want that you get your meaning over far better by choosing an appropriate one rather than risking losing your listener's attention because they think you are not capable of expressing yourself clearly. I tell my older ones exactly the same.

Cat - would you argue then that if fuck if the best word to use to get your meaning across then that is ok?

Surely people, teenagers in particular, use swearing to emphasise both their meaning and their social status and position in the group. Swearing is a way of showing they are grown up and comfortable in one another's company. I have often heard groups of teenagers (when they think no one is listening), around 13 or 14, who swear incessantly because they have just 'discovered' it and are, in their eyes, stressing their maturity. It is very unpleasant to hear but, in many ways you could argue this is appropriate swearing because it fits into the social situation. Similarly many people swear more when they are upset or angry and this acts as a social cue to others of 'dont mess with me!' or 'I'm particularly distressed.' This swearing emphasises meaning. (for example 'Oh, wheres my keys?' versus 'Oh fuck fuck oh shit where the fuck are my keys?')

My point is that you can use swearing to express yourself clearly, so I dont agree with your argument.

That said, I dont often swear myself and have no 'issue' with your objection! Just curious.

My DS (7) have recently learnt this rhyme

from my mother

I don't allow him to swear, he has occasionally been shocked by swearing on TV etc and exclaimed 'Oh he said shit' and I simply say he doesn't repeat it or he'll go back to watching Cbeebies! Actually carrying this out once was enough to stop him.

Fart is a swear word? Bloody hell..

DS often farts ON Grandad to escape tickling. (we are a toilet humour household)

The other day I was convinced DS said 'I want my fucking boat' and was . He'd actually said viking boat though

How can Fart and Bum possibly be swear words. Don't care if DS says fart and bum... rather that than F and C.

I think these things need to be put in perspective and if you equate bum / fart to other words then that's just silly, surely all it does it tell kids that saying BUM and FUCK are the same. Surely they are not... I say bum and fart in font of my kids and certainly 'try' not to say other words though.

Perhaps it cultural but I just think there are bigger things to worry about than bum...

My DS can only say fart to my mum, they are both disgusting and regularly have entire phone conversations based around each other being a bogey. My mum sends him beautifully written poems about bogeys & snot on hand painted green cards .

She however gets very prissy about the use of "bum".

Wellthen - what I was trying to say, obviously not very well, is that there is in fact always an alternative at least as expressive as a swear word.

Coconutty - you have made my point beautifully; how much more effective your reply would have been if it had been exclusively in English and not Anglo-Saxon. If you hoped to provoke shock you have failed - your reply induces only pity.

Wow, how patronising!

I have to tell my parents off for swearing in front of my 3yo son, bless them. None of them think that "crap" is a rude word (neither do I, but the checkout ladies in Sainsbo's think DS is adorable and I don't want some random people i will hardly ever see to think I'm a bad mother...).

I think swearing is a bit like drinking coffee or wine, having sex or eating a whole bar of green and black etc: you can do it when you're a grownup and in the right context. And be well brought up enough not to sneer at me for it.

And sorry, but "English and not Anglo-Saxon"? Hahahahahahahahhaha. Damn. There goes my pelvic floor.

Fart! I think your needs not to be so precious OP or patronising.

Tell them him fart really is not a rude word!

I am 68 and have 9 dgc. I use the words fart and bum when appropriate and so does my dh and all the DC/dgc however words relating to sexual activity and female genitalia are never used. I have never heard anyone ever say c**t in real life and would be appalled if I did.

But that what was my whole point Cat, there AREN'T words that are 'at least as expressive.' Swear words have their own form of expression as Coconutty so beautifully points out.

I'm sorry, I have no problem with people who don't like swearing but you need to get over yourself. You have no better grasp of the English language just because you chose not to use certain words and your understanding of social situations (even those that exist online) is apparently lacking somewhat.

You Mother's attempt to prevent you swearing has infact left you with a superiority complex.

Fuck off

I just happen to think that there is a difference between proper self expression and vulgarity but it is a free country and if a few people prefer one to the other so be it.