Are my HV's fibbing?

[lukeiamyourmother]

Basically I live in Enfield which has the highest infant mortality rate in London. This is because there are over 660 children to every HV. I've been given poor advice many times and so have my friends because they just want you out of the door.

Anyway, they scrapped the first year review here. But I was told that I could still have various things measured/assessed if I really wanted them.

I want :

• DS height measured - hes 17 months. I was told no as before the age of 2, their feet don't sit flat against the wall and so it cannot be measured . This is despite ALL my friends in other boroughs having their child's height measured. From younger ages too.

• His speech assessed. Perhaps not by a therapist but at least I want to be taken seriously. He just babbles and only says mummy. Again, they don't start any proper assessment until they are 2. But DS is ok because he is 'exploring his environment' and responds when I say no.

Are they lying again to get me out of the door quickly? I've seen them measure a child around the same age as mine as part of a specialist assessment while I've been in there (one HV also told the child his dummy was a dirty habit, despite the mother being unable to understand what was being said )

I just dont trust these people. Help!

i'm fairly sure there's more to the high infant mortality rate than lack of health visitors.

why can't you measure his height yourself? against a door, with a ruler and tapemeasure?

I can. But I want them to do it as I was told by the head honcho I could ask them anything (including height) seeing as we weren't getting the first year review. And yet it seems I can't and have reason to think they are lying. Hardly a good relationship builder.

Hmmm - sounds like you are going to struggle to get the level of care you want in your location and perhaps not surprising if they are so overstretched.

Certainly what you have said doesn't sound great, but if that is the reality unless you can go private it may be a case of not much you can do about it. :(

If it is at all reassuring my ds doesn't say any words and he is 21mo - I know he is OK and will get there in the end although I haven't had him looked at formally. I don't think my ds has been seen by a hv since before he was 12mo.

Don't know if you are concerned about his height particularly but a doctor could also examine for growing issues of it is something you are worried about.

Good luck.

Not sure about the height thing but the speech thing is pretty standard and even assessing at 2 is still pretty sharp.
Ds1 got assessed at 2 but only because he had hearing difficulties as well and the SALT waiting lists were months. So they wanted to get them ASAP.
A lot of areas don't bother with the 1 year check now anyway. But there must be more to infant mortality rates than lack of hv.

We live in that borough luke and I am sorry to say have received similar treatment. I don't go any more, they are very judgemental and I've heard them giving out terrible advice to women.

I don't get the feet against the wall thing?

As an ex-HV I can tell you that the height advice is correct. Many HVs measure it before because the PCT asks for it....but until a child is standing easily it isn't totally accurate. No reason that they cannot do of to give you a general idea though.

Speech is dependent on them being able to refer. In my area ALL speech referrals went through the GP. Do you have specific concerns? Most areas will not assess before age 2 unless a child has specific oro-facial difficulties and abnormalities.

Biggest issue though is a massive shortage of HVs meaning that the normal stuff is ignored. I left because in the end I felt less like a HV and more like a pseudo social worker.

The crap advice you have had needs tackling by taking it to PALS.

Of course they can measure his height. DD gets measured lying down.
Think they are correct about speech though.

I would measure him yourself, and ask your GP for a referral if you are worried about his speech (but I think 17 months may be too soon for this).

Don't think they are actually telling lies, think it could just be more a case of not telling the whole truth. Think that height measurement would be unreliable at this age and like others have said you can do it yourself or ask your GP. Babbling and saying only Mummy is fine at this age. We were concerned about DD's speech and were told that at that age they don't listen to the child, they just see if they can follow basic instructions. As long as he is doing that he should be fine. If he's not you may want to see your GP.

Think the best thing you can do in this senario is right to your PCT and complain about the lack of HVs in your area. Perhaps if they get enough complaints they may employ some more.

We used to get an 8 month and 2 years assessment here but both were scrapped when ds was a baby so he was only seen at 8 weeks and then whenever he had his jabs. I measured/weighed him myself and self referred him for speech therapy around the age of 2½ -3years. 17 months is a bit young to refer for speech issues as they wont have the attention span/ability to co-operate. The best thing you can do is keep talking to your baby, read stories, etc and review in a few months. Does he understand basic instructions and can he follow them?

In our area we have drop in clinics, where you just turn up to get DCs weighed, measured, any questions answered, referrals for further assessments etc. So if I wanted, I could get my children seen by a HV four times a week!

Do any of your neighbouring boroughs use a similar clinic system? If so, you could take your DS along with his red book to get him measured and for some advice about the speech, although any referral to a speech specialist would probably have to come from your own HV team.

Ok if the speech thing is right then fair dues to them! They didn't fob me off on that one. Thank god for the internet! I will relax now [wipes brow with relief emoticon]

The feet thing just sounded like such an almighty excuse because Ive seen them do it and loads of friends have had their kids measured.

Sorry to hijack codandchops am just about to train as a HV i hope its not all bad. What do you do now instead?

I'm going to be frank.

It seems like you are flogging a dead horse. If you want to measure his height, do it yourself and plot the result in your red book yourself. The book will tell you how to measure it or people on here will if you ask. Re the speech, post a thread on here detailing exactly what he can and can't do and ask for the advice of salts who post on here.

You seem to be attaching a god like status to your HV just because of her title. Your HV clearly has far too much to do and may or may not be rubbish anyway. MN is a great site and the collective wisdom on here is far in excess of that of your HV.

Many of us will have had our babies weighed by a HV shortly after birth and then not attended and baby clinic or HV services. It really isn't necessary and you can do most of it yourself particularly if you ask on here. If your child is ill then go to the GP. If you research on here and think your child needs speech therapy, go to the GP and get a referral or just see a private salt if you can afford it. That said, 17m is probably too young to worry about speech and even if there is a problem speech therapy will be more effective with a slightly older child anyway.

Didn't get my home check till baby was 5 weeks and I had to chase them for it.
Told me to continue BF and all was going well despite baby dropping 2 percentiles.
One stood up to dramatically stop a woman mixing formula the 'incorrect way' in front of everyone in the clinic and whispered to me "What is she doing?"
One told me my child was born on a different percentile to what he actually was, as she was unable to read the graph.

I just don't go any more! I feel so let down by them. Go to the GP if you have a problem luke :) they are much nicer :)

kitty dropping 2 centiles is fine though isn't it? Im sure it is, in which case advising you to continue BF was the right thing to do. And was the mother involved making up formula incorrectly? If so, it can make a baby VERY poorly, so the HV would be right to stop her (even if she was dramatic in the way she did it!)

Thats crap kitty. I will PM you in a min to see which clinic it was!

I prob do sound like Im flogging a dead horse to some but I feel we should get a basic level of care.

Unfortunately in an area with such high infant mortality your area your HV are probably snowed under with child protection stuff. I don't think it's any particular loss, if you're not somebody who needs extra support to not see them IYSWIM. Measure him yourself, if you're worried about where he plots on the graph then see the GP.

With regards to the speech my ds took a lot longer than dd to get the hang of it and I've noticed this pattern with friends dc. Sit down with him for an hour and show him somee things and then count how many sounds that sound vaguely similar, you may be pleasantly surprised.

I think it won't be long until HVsare a thing of the past, no bad thing IMO

Agree with the others, dropping 2 centiles is fine as long as baby isn't actually loosing weight. Agree again that mixing up formula incorrectly can have very serious consequences for the baby, although the HV might have handled it differently. There again I'm sure we all make the odd mistake at work.

OP if you are worried about his speech have you thought about babysigning? You don't have to pay for a class most libraries will have a book on it. It may help him communicate with you better .

The way it was handled was poor though flisspaps. The HV I saw said we could go onto a special weight increasing formula but she couldn't refer me for 3 months (baby wasn't even on the growth chart at all by then. 25th down to under 0.04th) We put him on normal formula and he was fine.

Well she put powder in a bottle from a dispenser so it looked fine and I was a bit upset for the girl, having the HV whisper to me about her. Its not professional is it?

My understanding is before 2, they measure length - baby/child lying down on their back. You can do this at home putting head against the skirting board, gently straightening the legs, and marking the end of the feet using a book or similar, then get the tape measure out.
Height is measured once they hit 2, and causes a shrinkage!

Thanks jilted. They do a baby signing class at the childrens centre. That said, I cannot fault enfield for its childrens centres. They do some really great stuff!

Is he pointing? If he isn't pointing at 18 months then you can quite reasonably ask for a speech therapy referral and it should be taken seriously. If communication is fine but speech is a concern then they do often wait until 2 which is a total pita if you then have to wait a year to see a speech therapist.

I think the role of HV has changed to becoming a service to identify vulnerable or abused children and everyone else is pretty much ignored.

I spent over a year trying to get them to take me seriously re Ds but was ignored as being over anxious and middle class. He eventually got a Dx of moderate-severe ASD but I was only referred for my 'peace of mind'.

When dd was born the HV team wanted to see her regularly as she was now an 'at risk' child, having a sibling with a disability and being at risk of ASD herself.

By then however I had lost faith in their knowledge and service wrt child development so kept away. I still get 'summoned' now and then but cancel.

You are right, we should get a basic level of care. But you need to look at the reality which is that they cannot or will not provide it. And you need to source it elsewhere, ie yourself and on here.