Terrible Twos or terrible child?

[Chinchilla]

I badly need some reassurance. My ds (2y 4m) is currently a nightmare. He is always saying 'No' to me, and hitting me. I find myself constantly either raising my voice or putting him in his cot to cool off. I know that this is 'normal' at this age, but with him it is non-stop. He gets an idea in his head, and repeats it ad-nauseum, even if I respond appropriately. When I talk to dh at the table, he starts making noises to get attention, and it is really driving a wedge between me and dh, in a relationship that is not really all that solid at the moment anyway

He also does exactly what he wants to do, and I find myself having to threaten him with the removal of what evertoy/treat he is playing with/due to have. I suppose he is just trying to assert his independence, but I find it very trying having to have this battle of wills all the time.

As I say, this is non-stop and it is really getting me down. When do they grow out of this? I found 18m-2y a really delightful time, and now I am constantly p*ssed off!

Chinchilla, i can relate to the talking at the table! My dd can be quiet as a mouse then when dp and i try to talk, or when i am on the phone, she CONSTANTLY interrupts for attention!(she's 2.7) She did go through a hitting stage but has stopped that! (thank the Lord) My dd will also repeat something until she gets the answer she wants and when she carries on, i leave her and do something else! Hope you get some more reassuranec/advice! Good luck

This is where it all starts. Its perfectly normal for him to test you. Don't so much worry about him but more about how you react to his new way of behaving. Positive reinforcement and letting him join in adult conversations might help. Don't believe that he will 'grow out of it', because it will only change to some other rebellious behaviour. For example 6 months ago my ds1 constantly laughed every time I tried to say something (absolutly maddening). Then he stopped (bliss) and then he started saying 'blah blah blah' whenever I started talking. Kids are annoying at times aren't they and the worse thing is- they copy our behaviour so theres no excuse.

Aloha might be a good help here, she always points me in the right direction, shes practically raising my ds. Again- good luck!

This is where it all starts. Its perfectly normal for him to test you. Don't so much worry about him but more about how you react to his new way of behaving. Positive reinforcement and letting him join in adult conversations might help. Don't believe that he will 'grow out of it', because it will only change to some other rebellious behaviour. For example 6 months ago my ds1 constantly laughed every time I tried to say something (absolutly maddening). Then he stopped (bliss) and then he started saying 'blah blah blah' whenever I started talking. Kids are annoying at times aren't they and the worse thing is- they copy our behaviour so theres no excuse.

Aloha might be a good help here, she always points me in the right direction, shes practically raising my ds. Again- good luck!

Chinchilla know how you feel my ds is just the same (2y1m) Dh works away all week and when he comes home of a weekend we get attention seeking off ds - it's not his fault I know but sometimes you can get a bit resentful of it. I just put ds outside of the room for about 30 secs when he is having a paddy or is doing something dangerous and when he comes back in he usually does behave himself. Tbh I find my ds harder to deal with when we are out and he starts playing up and tantruming - what do you do then? Because I have no idea, I just ignore him but it's a bit impossible if you are having to stay in the same place when he is doing it - like eating a meal for instance or at a hospital appointment for dd. Anyway I will stop waffling now

I am hoping mine will grow out of it too - but he is so lovable too and can be quite an angel at times!

Wow, Bekki. I have never been so flattered or amazed in my entire life - honestly. Thank you.

Chinchilla, I was going to say - before I was reduced to blushing furiously at my computer - that the ignoring/ praising routine will work, I think, even when your child is a 'nightmare'. I strongly suspect that his behaviour seems much worse because you are naturally stressed by other stuff in your life. It's like when you are tired or hormonal, stuff you'd shrug off normally really gets to you. I have always found my ds to be 'naughtier' when I am trying to work without childcare (I work at home) or when I am tired or worried about something. Actually, looking back he wasn't any different - I was.
I suspect you might possibly have got into a bit of a vicious circle. The more he annoys you and you punish him, the more stressed you feel so the more intolerable his behaviour seems and you withdraw from him or become critical, and he responds by behaving worse. Its also essential to quote someone else on Mumsnet, to 'pick your battles'. My ds is rarely 'obedient' to me either - he pretty much does exactly what he wants to do. I suspect that's just part of this age (my son is 2year2months). For me the way we live together most happily is to basically do what he wants in the most enjoyable way possible - as long as it is not getting in the way of my life intolerable (ie I do have to buy bread and milk when we run out!). The idea in head stuff I know all about - we recently had a stage when my mum told him about traffic lights, and we constantly had to hear him say "when the lights go geen, we can go' - (it drove his sister bonkers BTW!) so I made up a song about it and sang it all the time in the car, with everyone joining in the choruses (When the lights go green, the lights go green!) and the phase passes. I think to them the thing they are obsessed about is new, exciting, important, and, they think, interesting to them and therefore to you. I know it's not, but I find genuinely interacting with them about the 'thing' takes effort but makes the phase pass sooner rather than later. At the dinner table I think the only answer is to make conversation with him as much as possible, you may even find him funny and interesting ( you never know!). And then after he's gone to bed, have pudding and a glass of wine with your dh and have your grown up time then. I don't really give him many opportunities to say 'no'. Ie I put his pyjamas on him, lift him out of the bath etc without asking him first - I do tell him what's going to happen next and give him loads and loads of repeated notice of what's going to happen to let him adjust. I've found recently what he really, really likes is me telling him my plans in a story... eg "And when you've eaten your lovely lunch, we'll go into the living room and read The Gruffalo and then we'll take off your shoes, take off your trousers and then we'll go upstairs draw the curtains and have a lovely sleep.' It seems to help him make transitions better.
I do recommend a book called The Social Toddler that you can order over the Internet (pub The Children's Project) which is full of practical ideas for dealing with toddlers. I don't think it is idealistic as it is based on real toddlers with photo stories illustrating their real behaviour. And it's not above saying, if they have to go into the pushchair and they don't want to, then you just have to ignore the tears and bundle them in anyway
Anyway, I strongly suspect ds is beginning to test me more - resisting me more, saying "I don't want to go to bed' etc - so it should be an interesting few months. On the other hand he is SO funny. I went shopping yesterday in Primark and ds kept going up to lurid pink satin pyjamas and saying 'Oh, look at dis! I like dis one' sounding for all he world like a mini-Dale Winton

Thats alright Aloha. I told you should write a book. I've listened to everything that you have said, agreed with most of it, tried to apply some of it and failed on most of it. Nevermind.

another thing my ds does in defiance is when I tell him off he calls me 'mardy!' I really cant help but laugh (inside, I dont let him know I think it's funny)

I bought The Social Toddler (on Aloha's recommendation) and it is an excellent read (just wish I could finish the damn thing - ds2 keeps flinging it across the room and giving me a Thomas book to read to him instead )

Ds2 will be 2 on the 7th December and he is very trying at the moment. My biggest problem with him is him giving his big brother a really hard time (ds1 is not blameless in this, but seems to come off worse). He will, without provocation, clunk him on the head with a toy, bite him, or leap on top of him and wrestle with him. I am at screaming pitch most evenings - trying to mediate and cook dinner. I do time out when ds2 gets really bad, telling him off seems to have no effect at all, he just carries on with what he is doing. I know the theory behind the whole "terrible two" thing: he's testing his boundaries, establishing my limits, no morals or feelings of guilt, no concept of sharing, completely egocentric but that doesn't make it any easier!

So, not much by way of advice, Chinchilla, just sympathy and an acknowledgement that you are not alone!

Thanks everyone - anyone with a story of how they have come out the other side?? It might help me and all us other mothers of toddlers!

Can't go into great details right now, but just to say,IMO,it does pass and it does get easier. I feel like I went to hell and back with my dd2 from when she hit 18ms to about 2 3/4. She tested me in every way possible from food to sleep to clingyness (sp?)to hiiting,stubborness etc etc. There is many a thread where I have moaned about her endlessly. But she is now 3 3/4 and as she has grown and been able to express herself better and understand "life" better her frustrations have got less. She is still a challenge in lots of other ways but at least now we can actually talk about things. I also try to keep it in my head that all her will power and massive determination will serve her well in the future,I "just" have to help her channel it in a positive direction! Easier said than done when I'm having one of those days....but that's another story. HTH.