Fussy 8 week old possible tongue tie?

[vanillacremebrulee]

Hello. I'm at my wits end here and would've very grateful for some advice. DS is extremely fussy and colicky despite a healthy birth weight and continuing weight gain that put him in the 90th percentile. I'm ebf and have no re issues with it apart from a forceful letdown and possibly oversupply.
I've been advised by a breastfeeding counsellor that his tongue is tied and she puts all his misery down to this. I'm not convinced because he doesn't seem to have any problems feeding but I'm tempted to have it snipped as a last resort even though I don't want to put him through it if there's no need.
Can anyone advise me about what do please?

vanilla not really sure but if you post in the breast & bottle feeding section you may get more response.

Sorry but I don't really know much about tongue tie but Kellymom has got some information on oversupply here. If you don't know about Kellymom its all evidence based information, so you can trust it and lots of bfing Mums use the site.

If you're sure he has a tongue tie and suspect that it might have something to do with his colic (although it sounds like you're not sure the TT is the problem), I would consider cutting it. The snipping procedure is simpler the younger the baby is (less likely to bleed).

My ds has a tongue tie and I very much wish that we'd had it snipped. I couldn't find a dr to do it as it the pendulum seems to have swung from 'always cut a tongue tie' to 'no longer recommended'. He is my 3rd dc, all 3 ebf, and I could just tell from the start that something wasn't right - he couldn't make or sustain a proper latch and kept gulping in air until about 3mo, when it gradually improved (I think his mouth was big enough and tongue long enough by that point to compensate). He couldn't imitate sticking his tongue out (and still can't). We persevered, but he had awful colic, very fussy. The perseverance was worth it in the end - he's just finished weaning himself at age 2.5, but I wish we'd saved him the stress and colic at the start.

Have you explored other possible causes of colic if you're not sure that it's the tongue tie? Good luck!

Thank you for your replies. I think he's also got silent reflux because he often coughs and sometimes I can hear the liquid coming up his throat and then he gags without spitting up. The problem is that they say that reflux is also caused by tongue tie sometimes! So who to believe? He's also baby number 3 and I just know that something is not right. Crying in babies is normal but the amount of crying he does is not. It's on and off all day. Bizzarly he's not too bad at night otherwise I would be writing this message from a MH unit!
Apart for the expense of snipping (£150 in this area) I'm really against putting him through a surgical procedure, albeit a minor one.

Sorry to hear you are having a bad time.

6wo ds had his TT cut at less than a week old - the doctor (Paed surgeon at St George's, so he has seen a few!) said that in his experience it is not the cut that bothers them, but being held down. Indeed, DS was swaddled tightly, whilst one doctor held his head down and the surgeon aimed the scissors and snipped. DS was furious but the second he was handed back to me, fell straight back to sleep. So if you do go down this route, please don't worry about the op!

However, from what you have said, it sounds more like silent reflux (my other 2 boys had this - one severely). I think it starts to become apparent around now and for me, peaked at 3-4 months. I found that my reflux boys (!) would go rigid whilst feeding and scream through a feed. I could only settle them with a dummy. Feeds took forever - dummy, feed, dummy, feed and so on. They were impossible to wind and DS2 used to projectile vomit at least once a day. He also always smelled 'acidy'. He slept like a log at night though, but only ever settled on is tummy.

Interesting what you say about reflux and TT link. My 2 older boys are TT and both were a nightmare to wean - they would NOT touch purees so had to BLW. Transpires that TT babies find it difficult to move the slop to the back of their mouths. However, they both eat like a dream and I am TT and had no adverse effects!

My ds didn't have reflux with his tongue tie and by 8 weeks it was very clear to me that the tongue tie was his problem. I wouldn't have considered snipping it either without being fairly sure. Have you tried anything that might address the reflux?

Sorry, didn't see the previous post before adding my comment.

I agree that it sounds more like a reflux problem than a TT prob. We had some success giving dd1 (who had reflux but no TT) a dummy and elevating the head of her mattress slightly. But basically had to wait it out until the reflux improved of its own accord - can't remember exactly when that was, but certainly before 6mo.

Interesting about TT link with weaning onto solids. My TT son wouldn't touch slop either and we had to do BLW too.

Good luck! Either way, reflux or feeding problems to do with TT are no fun but will hopefully improve with time.

What is BLW?
I'm going to see my GP again this afternoon and see if I can get something for reflux. I thought some babies are prescribed gaviscon or ranitidine? I have mentioned it to him before but we agreed to wait and see if his fussiness improved before giving him anti acids.
I guess the problem is that the bf counsellor is very persuasive and I somehow feel I "need" to have his tongue snipped otherwise I'm not a good mum although I'm embarrassed to admit this much

BLW = Baby Led Weaning

FWIW, wanting to be confident that the snip is necessary makes you sound like a very good mum IMO.

Vanilla - if you have a supportive GP, I would definitely try the antacids. I would bypass gaviscon (pain to give if ebf, generally ineffective and also can constipate) and try the ranitadine. It takes a few days to work and revolutionised DS1's feeding. For DS2 it wasn't strong enough and he went onto Omeprazole but you may not need it.

Give the ranitadine 2-3 weeks and if no improvement, then you can snip the TT.

Hi I have a 9 week old and i was in the same position as you, ebf and gaining loads of weight, but feeding was still a bit difficult regardless, ds very fussy and taking loads of air in and getting lots of wind which upset him, poor thing. It had got the point for me pain was becoming manageable, and then tongue tie was diagnosed. I agonised over it for a bit because we were getting on ok, but not great, with feeding. I ended up taking him for the snip, because there didn't seem to be any negative side affects so I thought if it made him a happier baby with less wind it would be worth it. To be honest I am not sure how much it improved things as things had slowly been improving anyway (bigger mouth on a bigger baby must improve things a bit). Massaging the frenulum has been stressful and that has to be done at least twice a day. It is a difficult decision.

On this thread, can i just clarify - if it is TT and doesn't cause any major feeding problems, will it cause any long term problems if not snipped?
DS is 16 weeks and i recognise the fussy feeding, feed followed by dummy followed by feed and a bit of reflux.
He is putting on weight fine but his tongue looks a little bit like TT but now he is older he is sleeping fine and is less and less fussy. He has less reflux too. I asked several midwives when he was born if he had TT and they all said no.
I have heard TT babies can be slow in talking and am now worried.

Anyone got some good advice?

vanilla there is some information on Baby Led Weaning [http://www.babyledweaning.com/ here]]. I did purees with DC1 and BLW with DC2. Didn't find BLW a "nightmare" at all, in fact I found it to be loads easier that purees as DC2 just ate what the family were eating.

If you think it might be silent reflux have you seen the MN reflux support thread?

Also, if you're not convinced by the BFC comments, its fine to speak to another one. Have you got the numbers of any others in your area?

If you post in the Breast & Bottle feeding section there a couple of BFCs in there, the main ones are truthsweet and tiktok.

Sorry, here's that link again

it sounds like the first thing you need to do is force the hospital to give you an urgent appointment to confirm the tongue tie - if it's snipped, it'll work wonders (according to stories from other MNers)

obviously, it's not guaranteed to solve the problem, but if reflux can be caused by tonguetie, then surely it's better to cure the problem rather than treat the symptoms?
:)

Thank you all for your replies.
My GP is adamant that he's not tongue tied and is aware that a BFC in our area is very pushy when it comes to referring to the local lactation consultant for private treatment. If there's any suspicion of foul doing, i'm not getting it done! Furthermore I'm a bit uncomfortable with the fact that you don't need a medical qualification to carry our what is un effect a minor surgical procedure. Finally, i wasn't aware of the post op need to massage the frenulum - thanks for letting me know. I dont know why i wasn't told but the fact that they make it sound so easy and a cure for all the problems again makes me a bit suspicious.
Thanks for all the advice regarding the reflux medication too. GP suggests waiting another week so I'm trying to tough it out at the moment. Mind you we're having an okish day today, much better than yesterday anyway
jilted yes I have got help from truthsweet and tiktok regarding oversupply. They are great! This time I posted here because my question was really about TT rather than feeding issues. Thank you for your help