SALT appointment was a nightmare :-(

[mosschops30]

Ds2 is 2.4, at the moment he can say yes, no, dad, mum and peppa.

He had his 2nd SALT session yesterday, last one was in October when ge wasnt saying anything.
Anyway she got all the toys out and started repeating words, he is so stubborn that if you do that he just ignores you and does sonething else, so she ended up stopping him from playing with things, like cars down a ramp, she would put her hand across saying 'ready, steady' then waiting fir him to say go which he wouldnt, he just got upset and frustrated because he couldnt play.
Same happened with the jigsaw, he ended up splitting his lip trying to pull the pieces off her

this went on for an hour, i was traumatised by the end of it. She said that the things that normally work with children do not work with little mosschops! She now want him to have one to one weekly sessions but that wont be for another 3 months

I am not an expert at all but my dd didn't talk until she was 3. We 'hid' this from the HV because i didn't want her to have SALT. She sounds like your ds - very stubbon, a bit manipulative and very switched on to what the SALT was trying to do. Also my SIL is a SALT and highly irritating in that trying to draw words out of children way you describe, which just annoys my dc (and me).
Anyway, she turned 3 and started speaking in full sentences (I can talk now that i am 3, etc). Now at school she is doing well and talks too much according to her teacher!

It doesnt sound like your DS responds well to the SALT - DS1 saw a private SALT and a NHS one. He really didnt bond with the NHS one and didnt respond well to her - but clicked with the private one and came on in leaps and bounds with her. Might it be worth checking out private SALT offerings in your area and speaking with them on the phone to say the NHS issues you have had and asking how they would deal with it?

I'm surprised they did an hour. Ds (age 4) has half an hour sessions and finds that very tiring. He clicked better with his second lady and responded much better. He was also better with regular sessions that he could remember the games from the last time. Could you ask if it's possible to try a different person?

My DS2 is 2.8 and has fewer words than he "should". He also speaks a lot more with people he knows... He wouldn't respond well to SALT. I think that as long as he is learning new words, however slowly, he'll get there eventually.

he's still very young. Ds didnt start SALT until he was 3½ - 4 years old. He had 1 to 1 sessions for ½ an hour per week for 6 or 7 weeks at a time before having a break. He had 2 blocks of sessions before being discharged from SALT. I would maybe leave it a while and then if he still isnt improving re-visit SALT. Ds's therapist says he was at a good age for speech therapy as he was a bit older and could concentrate more.

FWIW, DS2's vocal skills were similarly limited at 2.4. Having been through SALT with DS1, I tried not to worry too much and now at 3 his vocab has expanded massively.

Thanks for all the positive posts
i really dont want to go back, i am hoping that because he starts full time childcare at the end if the month he will come on in leaps and bounds and that i wont have to.
His receptive language skills are great, he knows exactly what everyone is saying, im not worried about anything else with him.
I might look into some private sessions if hes not improving.

Great to hear that lots of your dcs spoke later than expected

Another one here whose DS2 didn't speak until much later (DS1 was an early talker). We had initial app'ts with SALT at about 2.4 but they were more about playing games etc. My DS was also not really keen to say things back and wanted to play with other things than the SALT wanted him to! The SALT did say that when they are that young it is difficult as they don't engage very well and their attention span is short which can make the appointments rather pointless when young so she contacted the pre-school he started at when 2 yo and got them to do some group type things. Apparently this is a strategy that they use quite a lot - just giving you and any nursery care settings pointers of how to help so that his day to day life can incorporate SALT without it being a bore. My DS has only been back now and again to check on progress as he was improving each time but still had problems with certain sounds. At 4yo he now cannot say 'c' or 'k' sounds properly - so it's a 'tar' instead of a car etc. We are due back for another app't next week (last one 6 months ago with 2 phone calls in between to see how things are going).

FWIW I think that the SALT that you saw was a bit intense and couldn't really deliver an appropriate strategy to your DS for his age. I am pretty sure that the crux of the situation is that when they do say something you just repeat the word back correctly to them if they aren't pronouncing it quite right when they are that young.

Has your DS had a hearing test? My DS did have some reduced hearing function (probably associated with numerous upper RTI's when young) but that improved and we did start to notice an improvement in his speech then.

Looking back I think I was concerned that he seemed so determined not to speak at that age - and I think this was probably more so because DS1 was such an early talker. However, with the benefit of hindsight, and also having heard of the same with many others I really wouldn't worry half as much!

Good luck :)

She does not sound very good...
If all it takes to get children to talk is get toys out and start repeating words surely none of them would be having a speech and language delay in the first place as i'm sure most of the mums would have already tried that at home :S I thought they would do something a bit 'more' or atleast not just these same old things, especially if it does not work?
Tbh personally i would still go back, see if she gets any better, unless it is really upsetting him then it's time to complain and try to get a different slt.. or even try to give the feedback to that slt herself and ask if she can try some different strategies? if you can afford it try private?
my ds2 is also 2.4 yrs and he is on waiting list for salt at the moment, he would not have responded to that either

I can't remember how many words my DS had at 2.4 but I do know it wasn't all that many. Now at 2.10 he is easily where he should be and the hv put his speech and language at 3 and a half. Yet if she had seen him a few months ago she would have said he was 'behind' in those areas.
I don't know your exact circumstances but it does seem to me to be fairly common for small children to suddenly come on in leaps and bounds in a very short space of time.

And just repeating the same word doesn't seem a brilliant way to encourage a toddler to talk!

My DS speech delay was because of autism. He was seen as very stubborn, but in fact it was more to do with him being on his 'own agenda' something often seen with young children with autism, he had to be in control . I know you said that you have no other concerns and great that receptive language is good but it might be worth just checking the MCHAT checklist to make sure that no other red flags are present. Our experience of NHS SALT has been very poor as they often do not have the knowledge to deal with children who have a bit more than a speech problem going on. I hope thats not the case for you but worth checking out.

Thanks agnes i have done the MCHAT before for ds and he didnt come up with anything, so not worried on that.
When i say stubborn, i mean 2 year old stubborn

I too think 2.4 is still very young. My dd wasn't joining words together and had very few of them anyway by that stage. She is now 3.4 and we have seen a private SALT on and off for about a year. At first the SALT just made dd feel comfortable and relaxed which for her was important. She only really started to come on at about 3. She's also been at pre-school since January which has made a really big difference. She can now have proper (short)conversations with her peers and adults. I know what a worry it can be but I would be inclined to wait until around 3 when I bet you will see a real leap.

I am so surprised to read this. At 2.4 my boys were probably saying about the same, HV wasn't concerned and said she would contact us a bit later in the year. She pointed out that they were still so little that a few months could make a huge difference. They were put on the list at 2.10 and last week (3.2) they had their first SALT assessment.

Just for my own knowledge (and so I can bring it up with the HV) are there any other concerns with your DS? Is there a reason he was referred so early? At our assessment she advised group sessions then reassess and decide whether one-to-one sessions would be beneficial.

The HV said that at his 18m check he should have been able to say 6 words. At that time i dont think he was saying anything.
She said she had no other concerns as he was sociable, pretend plays, made eye contact etc.

Im not sure if this us normal but am about to train as a HV so am bloody well gonna find out

It's very young. My ds is 3.6 and has severe speech problems, but here in Belgium it's been a fight to get him assessed. Usually they don;'t start speech therapy until age four. I have a thread on it in this section.

Personally I think you should wait a few months before going back.

Agreed with others that she doesn't sound very good. This does not seem like a very effective use of anyones time, TBH. If he was going to repeat words for a speech therapist, surely he would already be doing this with you. I thought their role was to try to improve the speech of a LO whose speech wasn't clear but who is willing to try. And 2.4 seems very young for that. There is not much you can do if they don't say much anyway and become totally stubborn when expected to perform. You can always make the appointment for 3 months time, but there is a good chance he will be saying a lot more by then, in which case you can always cancel.

The exact same thing happened with DS. He barely said anything at 2.4. Maybe about 6 words.

We went to SALT and he didn't say one word for the first 3 sessions. He was very shy and extremely intimidated by the women. He was sat directly opposite her at a toddler table and would not even look at her. She pulled his fingers from his mouth which is his go-to comfort habit when scared or upset so he hated her for that.

In the meantime, he just started adding more and more words and around the 2.7 mark was pretty much where he should be. He has full conversations now although he is still immature in some of his soundings it's quite easy to understand what he's saying.

It really was like a switch and his speech has exploded. I don't think I did anything major with him. I just made myself more aware if speaking to him and not for him. I repeated what he said but never asked him to say anything as he would clam up. I spoke about what we were doing more as well.

He still won't talk to the therapist but will chat in the bus to strangers now :)

Oh, he's 2.11 now. It's like he learns several new words a week and parrots back everything I say to him.

He's even started asking what things are and repeating my answers. Your DS is young. Just give him time.

2.4 is young for SALT sessions where I am. At that age with a language delay they would probably offer you a course to teach you how to interact/games to play to encourage language development, and if he attends nursery would give staff their the same tips. Then actual speech therapy if necessary a bit later aged 3-4ish.

I think an hour is a long time, ds1 only had half hour sessions ( he started with a private salt at 5) , and as someone else said, these were more than enough for him. He saw a diff salt for a while when his regular lady was unwell and really didnt bond with her, so it maybe worth trying a different one.

allshiney a lovely story

That sounds completely bizarre OP! I've had 2 DC in SALT & it most certainly is not about pushing productive speech (i.e., making them say anything). The SALT usually works hard on awareness of speech sounds to start, and for half hour maximum (this is with age 4-5yo). With plenty of homework for parent to do in 5 minute spells daily, which again, is mostly about improving child's listening skills. I have been leaned on hard by 3 different SALTs to never to push the child to make the "right" sounds.

What you describe sounds crazy. That is not how NHS SALT should be at all (ime).

Very of the SaLT available in your area !

Only have experience of an Independant salt but our sessions are only 30 minutes which is more than long enough. The first few weeks were HARD! Ds was most uncooperative but gaining his attention and cooperation was the salts main aim initially and there really wasn't a huge focus and actual speech.

Ds is very much an on his own terms type of chap but he did gradually start to be more cooperative but our salt was excellent at finding things to motivate him and gain his attention.

I do remember feeling utter despair though at seeing ds spending 27 minutes running away from the salt and 3 minutes engaged in therapy. That's expensive therapy!!!