Unnacceptable behaviour in five year old daughter - Advise please. Sorry its long!

[tracyface]

I know I have got it completely wrong today with disciplining my five year old.
I got really cross , shouted in her face and threatened to throw her favourite soft toy out of the window!

We had a difficult day yesterday but today is much worse. She had hidden her younger brothers shoe (as they had wanted to go outside and she decided she was going to swop and wear his shoes . I said no because they were too small , not hers and he needed them as hers would be too big for him) She then thumped him in the back (I didn't see it but heard it). I told her she couldn't go outside until she apologised . She refused . I let him go out and shut the door so she couldn't follow him (he then didn't really want to go without her , but went out anyway) . She told me" she was going to go and i couldn't stop her, new na, na , na nah, nah".

So I locked the door and he was then crying outside because he felt like he was locked out. So he had to come back in again!

I shouldn't have to lock the door - she should accept that no means no?

She then launched at me snarling from behind and hit me on the back quite hard . I asked her to calm down and apologise as she had hurt me and that wasn't ok in a firm and fairly cross tone. She refused laughing telling me she was going to hit both of us . I protectively gathered up my son so she couldn't hit him again and so she just managed to hit me hard instead. I raised my voice shouting no she was hurting me and we left the room with her following still trying to him me.

I shouldn't have to run away from my own five year old?

I went upstairs to her room , took her favourite soft toy cat from her bed and told her i was going to put it outside till she calmed down and said sorry, she once again laughed and blocked my way so I threatened to throw it out the bedroom window. She called my bluff so I just put it up on the top of the window out of her reach , she then gathered up my shoes and hand cream and said she was going to throw them out too! I thought I had better offer her a get out so completly changed the subject thinking maybe hunger was affecting her mood. Made lunch - again offering her a choice (another opportunity for an argument) she then ate just the ham and not the bread because it was too dry because she didn't want butter) I told her it was her cholce not to eat it but no snacks/food till dinner.

Oh dear , I feel so guilty to resorting to something so childish, Im supposed to be the grown up. I can't win with her and it just always seems to be a battle of wills , she has an answer for everything. She is an angel at school but a demon at home , I know she can't be good all the time but I just worry if she is this out of control now whats she going to be like as a teenager. Im not a first time Mum I have had 5 kids but finding her extremely challenging.

She is clever, articulate (Very shy at school ) and there are other issues (hearing , emotional ) that could be effecting her behaviour but can someone please offer how they think I could have done it differently without making me feel even more awful than I do.

I think you did very well to hold it together through all of that. I'd have probably shouted so good on ya!

It's so frustrating when we do all the things that we are supposed to do and it still goes tits up.

Your dd sounds very like my 5 yr old ds. I'm sorry, i can't offer any advice but I will watch your thread as I'd love some advice.
I think it sounds like you dealt with the her behaviour well. In the past I've lost my temper with ds when he has been behaving badly and that has led to a total melt down on his part.

she sounds like my 4yo. also a demon at home but an angel at school. we had a friend over after school today and she she went abs nuts bcos said friend was better at elefun than her..i mean total meltdown. it was embarrassing for her poor little friend as i had to resort to 'the naughty room' tact...which didn't really work. she just doesn't 'get it' when disciplined at all...i often lose it and shout, i tell myself every time not to and to be the grown up but they seem to keep pushing the wrong buttons...i think she wants to be shouted at sometimes, perhaps its an attention thing, she has a 2yo bro who does get a fair bit more attention at times, purely bcos he needs it for his own safety!! so no sorry i have no advice, but you're not alone. (i'm dreading teen years too)

I really feel for you.

I have not had such a rough time as you, but, I have had a period of time recently when my DD just did not do what she was told, argued back, started shouting a lot. She is good at school. I think she has had an increase in work levels having gone from reception to yr1 and she gets very tired easily. Also has a younger brother so all the issues around attention etc.

I bought a really good reward chart from amazon, magnetic one that we can add DS to aswell. There are pre-written magnets to put on and wipe clean pen to add your own, write their names at the top, the number of stars target, and the reward, which DD helps to choose (trip to the park after school, swimming with mummy at her gym that kind of thing). We started it 3 weeks ago and the results were amazing. DH and I decided to try really hard to ignore the bad, but agreed we would reserve the right to add one frown instead of a star. But we added the things up there that were really problematic. so stay in bed til 7am. get dressed for school without arguing. play nicely with brother. eat her dinner without messing about (and same for DH). Realised as time went on that too many things mean many things don't worked on so just focussed on the main things.

We did not put stuff related to shouting, as it has to be positive. but we concentrated on the things that might increase risk of shouting such as related to above (being asked to get dressed lots of times, being told off for picking on brother, not eating her dinner without messing about).

And has really really made a difference. We only put one frown on in those 3 weeks (although felt like it more than once), for messing about and running out of the park on way home when ds followed and almost ran in the road. She worked that frown off by getting two stars the next day.

You might have tried these things already, but for us, we had got stuck in a rut of being perpetually cross with DD and it was becoming a vicious circle that we could not break, and the atmosphere was becoming very negative. Something had to change and we needed to re-focus her and us on keeping it positive and helping her learn in a positive way.

Not saying there has been no shouting since and no problems, but things have become much more in control for us, we make a big deal of the positives, whenever she gets a star we make a fuss and tell her how proud we are of that behaviour.

Just my thoughts here.

Poor you, that sounds rough.

The thing that strikes me reading your post is that maybe your DD and you would benefit if you set clear boundaries and had consequences where you both know in advance will happen for unacceptable behaviour.

Time out - a minute for each year of her age works in our house (we very rarely have to use it these days). I know some people do well with reward charts for behaviour as positive reinforcement.

I think you need to make it very clear to your DD what your expectations are of her, and what will happen if those expectations are not met. Perhaps you could sit down together some time and write down a list of ground rules, using positive rather than negative language, such as "We will always speak to one another kindly" etc.

She is clearly trying out pushing boundaries - as children do - so the main thing is to make sure the boundaries are clear.

Wishing you lots of luck. This parenting lark can be pretty tricky sometimes :)

Firstly Thankyou everyone, for your positive and helpful suggestions.

I took her to the doctors just to make sure she was physically well and she is so now I have decided to put my new plan into action.

I think because I worry she is shy and lacks self confidence at school I have empowered her at home (a bit too much) I talk to her all the time about choices and different scenarios in the hope she would learn empathy but I think I have given her too many choices and made her almost big headed, a bit selfish and bossy. I think I may have got it a bit wrong, I know none of us are perfect and have been doing lots of reading around the subject and what others suggest work.

This is what I have decided to do. I think we need to come together as a family and make some rules , let her have her share in deciding a few simple rules and make a large Spot the Kindness chart. (as per the parenting puzzle website) When someone notices another person doing something kind or helpful then a spot is put on the picture of the dog on the Kindness chart.

ITs not picking out her bad behaviour or singling her out and also not a competition . Im hoping it will bring us together more and when the chart is full we can all do something together as a family .

I have been very firm , much more consistent and trying not to argue back with her once i know she hears what I have said and I must stay I have surprised myself. BUt it does take physical and emotional strength to deal with to keep calm and be the adult in this. I am going to keep it up and see how we go . I have spoken to her teacher who said she couldn't quite believe I was talking about the same little girl but has given me a 'good choices at home and school ' chart to hopefully have some continuity between home and school so thats brilliant that I have their support too.

Feeling much more positive today and we are going away as a family at the weekend for a week so Im hoping I can spend more 'time ins' with her rather than battling trying to get her in 'time outs'

Il post again if any of this works , let me know if anyone has anymore good ideas , thanks

I love the idea of spot the kindness! Good to hear you thinking about emphasising the positives, it is a really hard thing to stay focused on when in the throws of really difficult behaviour, this is a good way to focus on the behaviour you want, without rising to the challenge so speak

Good luck I hope you get some success and I will keep an eye on this thread for updates

Buy the 123 magic (the red one there's two different ones) book. It teaches a behaviour strategy for kids up to age 12. Works fab on my dd. It's all about showing no emotion, not getting into conversation with the child which in effect shows them who is boss