And another 3.5 driving us insane tantrums at night , terrible at home angel at nursery

[Rosa]

Dd2 has always been a challenge however things are getting worse and when Dh starts getting up at ungodly hour to work soon he is talking about sleeping elsewhere ....he does need his sleep as his work involves the public and he needs his brain with him......
She just seems cross most of the time. Cross with her toys , cross with us ( especially me) if things are not how she wants them .....but other than the usual rituals I have no way of knowing how they should be. She is issuing orders with a passion ( we reply 'you need to ask nicely,with a nice face etc) . She bullies her 6 yr old sister hitting, pushing,telling her what to do. Her sister is the complete opposite, tranquil, gentle,happy go lucky.
Nights recently are hell. She goes to bed happy and normally wakes for a wee. Then the fun starts, she throws off the covers( no problem with that) cries and screams for any toy, book, but she doesn't want it. She kicks and hits if you try to cuddle comfort. She wants me in the room but tells me to go away. The thing is she knows that at night she needs to be quiet as not to wake dd1,dad and also the very kind and nice neighbours, so I am thinking its another control tactic but how the hell do I stop it?We did leave her one night and she screamed blue murder for 40 mins .
We know she can be a funny adorable child with a wicked sense of humour but it is all getting OTT and dd1 is also suffering as my attention seems to be permantly on Dd2 .
Naughty step doesn't work though we keep trying. Star chart about 5 mins. Shouting is ineffective, as is sharp ' no ' getting at her level etc- you just need to hold her arms to look at you and she is the no1 drama queen.
At nursery she plays well, shows no agression but knows how to defend herself!
She did give up her dummy about 2 weeks ago but she only asks for it in the misdst of a tantrum and not at night.
Some aspects I see are normal for a 3 yr old and this too will pass. But
but after last nights episode any hints welcome.
Thanks for reading........

hopeful bump ...

I would absolutely show her who is boss. Keep calm but VERY firm and find out what hurts ie taking toys away, favourite sweets whatever.

Do you do time out?
What punishment does she get for hitting etc?
And let her scream, put earplugs in and leave her. This is just anger and control, she is not upset, don't try and please her when she's being a brat.

Allocate time for DD1, maybe she could go to bed half an hour later so she feels secure.
Tell your lovely neighbours that you child is being difficult and so if they can bear with the screaming you are going to crack it!!

Once you start down this road of ignoring her at night time, DO NOT stop.

Oh and sticker chart both girls about bedtime, at the end of the week make a HUGE fuss oiver DD1 being such a good girl and do something nice!

posie thanks, yes we do time out on a step but she justs keeps screaming even after the 3 minutes you try and say ' you are going back on the step as you have done xxx' and she can't hear a word you are saying as she is in automatic anger scream mode.
For hitting she gets a sharp no 'with you don't hit' and if cartoons are on they get turned off , they don't return unless she apologises to whoever she has hit. Then if after a count of 3 she doesn't say sorry she goes in time out. DD1 has my ipad then to watch cbeebies which is a bonus as we are in Italy and they both love it . We are trying to make that a 'treat'.
I have taken away sparkly shoes (!!!!), no 1 puzzle . the only thing I don't feel I should take is her bunny night time toy as seeing she has just given up her dummy its her main comforter.
The star chart is up on the wall and yes that is the plan with a treat - the last one diddn't work as she just pulled it off the wall and stamped on it when she diddn't get a star.
I can't put dd1 to be later as she is such a sleepy head and at times needs more sleep than dd2 - she does lost of sport and is often shattered. They share a room and we don't have a big house to move one / either.
The neighbours are lovely so understanding I just feel so guilty as not being able to control my child !

It just takes a bit of working out that's all . I think you're going to have to see the charts through, don't worry if she rips her off (perhaps put it higher) allow dd1 to have hers and earn something fabulous.
Does she generally eat well? Exercise?

And ask nursery for help, she's obviously learned that she can be a nightmare with you and not nursery and so it's all about pushing your buttons.

You cannot let her win!! Just try not to respond.

I have my first really strong willed child, DC4, but I do (at times) keep calm and ignore the bad behaviour.

There are lots of people that hate time out, I've no idea what they do but I think it works!!

You mention the night time screaming wants you/ don't want you. Sound like she is having night terror. My dd dies this she looks awake but she isn't we take her screaming and kicking when she hits the cold night air outside she wakes up and settles back to sleep. This will have an affect on day time as not sleeping properly at night will make her tired and irritable during the day. Dd trigger is being too hot. Hope this helps.

Thanks dh is getting so fed up with it all as well as he just can't see why she does it all . She eats pretty well for a 3 yr old. She normally eats pasta / soup at school and they make them try what else is on offer , meat , cheese , veg etc ( with the parents agreement). SHe gets lots of exercise as we walk everywhere and now spring ( well the cold weather has stopped) we go most places on a bicycle or scooter. Plus she has mini gym club once a week. I think you are right it is my 'buttons' she is looking to press but I am the one she runs to when she needs a cuddle and she is jealous of me and dd1. As for the night I am not sure if it is a terror as she throws an extra wobbly when I try to move the covers or sit on the end of the bed. However will try the fresh air. Yes she is worse in the day when she has been awake in the night - today twice in time out and this pm no party is dd1 class friend but here they are all invited!.... Thanks for your support !

I had a horrendous toddler DD - she's 13 now and generally lovely but sometimes a massive pita although she still has controllingy tendencies which I have to watch out for.

What you have to do is find the one thing she REALLY wants. The one thing she'll be devastated not to have - be it cuddly teddy, swimming lessons, favourite TV programme - and tell her "Behave or it goes" - and then do it.

It will not be pleasant. She will have the mother father grandmother of all tantrums.

But hopefully you will only ever have to do it once.

In my case, DD was about 4 maybe 5 and I phoned her weekly lesson in an activity and with her standing screaming beside me told the instructor that DD would not be there this week as her behaviour had been so bad that she was not allowed to go.

Only ever had to do it once.

But you have my sympathies

(And I know that sounds cruel but there's no point in a punishment if they aren't bothered)

Forgot to mention I kept a diary for a while to see for trigger to night terror as they usually happened between 10-2. once we had worked out what was going on & how to wake her as they can be very frighted by it then we were in a much better situation. You will know a terror as they are bolt upright generally very sweaty too there is some good info on baby centre web site.

I have a 3.4 yo DS who had just started tantrumming (sp?) badly. We are doing our best to ignore him when he is doing it and I think it is working.
He fell asleep under the dining room table on friday after a particularly bad one, which made me feel guilty, but having had similar episodes with DS1 and 2, I know if we don't do something about it now it will only get worse.
Good luck, I know it's early for one of these, but have one anyway and I'd go and buy a box of ear plugs for everyone (neighbours included).

Thanks for the wine think I need it. Dh took them past the toy shop this morning ( window display open) and they both have decided what they would like. Dd2 has already 1 star and we are going OTT on the praise for DD1. You are right about the not caring hathor she at the mo is not fussed about the party . We have also banned the computer ( cbeebies)' Ipad - only when she deserves it. Lunch she was messing round even more - i will keep thinking about what it could be that we could remove that she might 'click' that we mean business. Also will show dh this thread as he is loosing hope and his cool ....
Re the night I will keep an eye on the temp as we have underfloor heating it might mean some room re arranging but we tend to only put the heating on when its needed right now.
Thanks for making me feel better!!!

Pick your battles OP, one/two things at a time. So we stuck to basics, food, manners and bedtime.