Are all/lots of toddlers like this?

[KKKKaty]

My 2.5 year old DS is a bit of a trial. He is constantly naughty. Throwing things, pushing over chairs, throwing food on the floor, not doing what he is told EVER, and worst of all constantly attacking his baby brother at the drop of a hat, including biting him and bashing him over the head with things. He's on the naughty step a dozen times a day for the same things over and over and over again and doesn't ever seem to modify his behaviour to avoid being told off or going on the naughty step. I constantly praise him for the things he does nicely, that doesn't seem to be working either.

Please tell me that this is within the realms of normal toddler behaviour, and that he will eventually learn to do as he is told and grow into an obedient well-adjusted child, and I'm not raising a mini-psychopath. Also, anybody know what I can do about the biting?

How old's the baby? It's a massive change in a toddler's world. and DS1 was a nightmare for the first 3 months.
I think a lot of posters will be along soon, going through exactly the same thing as you!
Can I recommend Toddler Taming by Christopher Green? A fab book that has kept many parents not only sane, but still fond of their children too!
Good luck...it doesn't last forever....if thats any consolation..

Very very familiar to me - but we found out ds had glue ear which accounted for some of it. But I think it's within the bounds of normal. Be consistent - stick to your guns and this too shall pass! Loads and loads of positive praise when being good worked a bit too although v difficult to do sometimes when you're knackered.

The baby is nine months. DS1 used to bite us, and children at nursery. He's stopped biting us and is a lot better at nursery and with other children, though you still can't take your eyes off him for a second. He used to ignore DS2 or be really nice to him but over the past couple of months poor DS2 has born the brunt of his violence. He's lovely to him a lot of the time but will suddenly just turn and sink his teeth into him. It's not a very relaxing life as I can't even turn my back to cook or wash up as he'll bite or try to all the time with no provocation.

Thoroughly normal - it will get better!

Yes lots of toddlers are like this. Be persistent,it sounds like you are doing the right things. When my dc2 came along my dc1 would hit him in the face, full on. It was all about attention- try and make time for your dc1, even if it's just 5 whole minutes, every hror so, just to give them yr full attention.
We used to have sit on lap and eat toast mid morn, stuff like that.
It will pass, my toddler can still be so unreasonable- its the nature of the beast, will get better.

I'm persisting with the naughty corner because I can't come up with an alternative. Any suggestions would be welcome. I've asked the health visitor who has been a couple of times and she can't come up with any alternative either. Oh, other than just ignoring DS1 and giving DS2 loads of attention when he gets bitten. I couldn't follow through with that because I couldn't maintain the necessary air of zen-like calm.

I have got Playful Parenting but got bogged down in the chapter on "roughhousing" (you what?) and didn't finish it. Will try it again if you think there are techniques that could help with the violence?

I agree that you should think again about the naughty step as it isn't working - what a lot of stress for all of you.

My ds was like this and I don't have any easy answers, but I just want to reassure you that it is within the bounds of normal. I found 'How to talk so kids will listen VERY helfpul' too.

Are you getting enough sleep? It was always harder for me when DD1 kept me up all night.

DS is now a charming five year old.

I agree the naughty step isn't working - but what shall I do instead when he bites or whatever?

Will try reading How to Talk and Playful Parenting. Although How to Talk struck me as a book more aimed at talking to older children - most of what I say to DS1 goes in one ear and out the other, so it doesn't really matter what I say.

I am getting a reasonable amount of sleep as DS2 isn't a bad sleeper. I am however permanently mentally shattered as I live all day on high alert, as you might imagine.

Humphrey, glad to hear that your DS came out the other side - very encouraging. Do you remember WHEN this happened?!

It happened slowly - he gradually got more civilized

If he bites again I would very firmly say NO, DD is NOT for biting, and then turn to pick up your DD and walk away from your DS, making a really big deal of your DD.

I think the naughty step is a rubbish technique tbh, and the only parenting strategy that makes people do it MORE the less it works.

I know what you mean about How to talk, but honestly I used it when DS was totally non verbal and so unlikely to do as I asked that I had his hearing checked... It really helped me to see things from his point of view. Also the follow on book Siblings without Rivalry was brilliant.

Best of luck, I really know how you feel.

Going on the naughty step is you giving attention albeit negative attention. It's better to concentrate on comforting the victim and remove them than spend time on the agressor.

I agree he is reacting to the arrival of a sibling. He's probably worse when you are dealing with the baby I would guess. My eldest climbs onto my shoulders when I'm trying to do a nappy change- anything to get me to turn my attention back to her.

If your boy is not particularly verbal he will use his behaviour to tell you what he is feeling inside. An older child will probably say "I wish you didn't have a baby" or " I want to kill my brother"- not pleasant to hear but less to clean up afterwards.

The first yr or so after a sibling is born is a very difficult time (the most stressful yr of my life- but it did get better from a yr).

Give your son and yourself a break- try to ignore as much of the behaviour as you can and give him plenty of 1:1 when the baby is sleeping or at weekends (if you have a partner around then).

Acknowledge that he must be feeling very angry and if the baby does something to annoy him acknowledge that too. Make sure everyone knows the no hitting/ biting rule so when the baby starts lashing out/poking pulling hair- tell the baby "no hitting". Even though the baby won't understand your son will see that you are treating them fairly and he's not being singled out.

Sounds normal. I have a toddler/baby situation too; if DS2 is 9 months perhaps he is more able to invade DS1's space/play with his things etc? I've heard that can shake things up.

I got recommended a book called 123 Magic over the weekend - maybe worth a look?

How is your ds's speech? I ask because my ds was slow to talk and used to bite when he couldn't make himself understood in conflict situations. He talks well now and he no longer bites. It used to be worse when tired and hungry and I spent a long time being very vigilant at groups and swooping in if there was a problem. I also stopped seeing people who found it all really hard to cope with (unsurprisingly) and withdrew from some groups. But now he has no problems.

Thanks everybody for your comments. His speech might be part of the problem - his pronunciation isn't that good although he has a good vocab. He is also worse when tired or hungry.

I think the attacking of his brother started when he grew big enough and enough of a "person" that DS1 started to perceive him as a threat.

Re the suggestions to just tell him not to bite and to comfort DS1 when it happens - I see where you're coming from on this. However when I've tried this it seems to me that we're just letting him get away with the biting, and not giving him any incentive to stop. If there are no consequences for him, why would he stop doing it?

It sounds like normal toddler behaviour for the situation, also sounds like really hard work for you!

My 2.2 year old has started to really not respond to the naughty step technique too, I have been doing a (gentle) version for a while as ignoring and distracting did not work, and it has worked brilliantly but no more. He now seems to see it as an opener to a battle of wills which I do not want to get into, so I have been trying more cause and effect type consequences as well as 123 magic, which seems to work a lot better.

So if he throws food on the floor, I (calmly) tell him that we don't throw food on the floor, and if he does it again I will know that he is not hungry and take the food away. If he then throws some more i take the food away and get him down from the table then ignore him until the rest of us are finished. If he throws a toy, I tell him that we don't throw toys and if he does it again I will have to put them all away. Etc etc etc.

The biting thing is really really hard, and as you say, what else can you do when you have tried everything and asked everyone you can think of? Have you thought of putting the baby in a sling on your back? It would keep him out of harms way while you could focus more on your 2yo perhaps?

As other posters have said, a lot of his behaviour is probably done to the fact he has a newish sibling, his verbal skills aren't yet up to resolving conflict and expressing his emotions and because he is only 2! It will get easier just because he will get older and more mature. Good luck!

"However when I've tried this it seems to me that we're just letting him get away with the biting, and not giving him any incentive to stop. If there are no consequences for him, why would he stop doing it?"

Well, he won't be getting any attention and what he craves most is your attention. He doesn't care whether it's positive or negative attention. So if you give all your attention to his sibling he'll have an incentive to stop- it might not work but it's worth trying- after all you have been using consequences and they've not worked either.

Thanks for all your comments everyone. I guess I was just desperately hoping for someone to say "oh, I did XY and Z and my DS stopped biting within a week"! Poor DS2 always looks like he's been in the wars, with bite marks all over his forehead, and I feel so sorry for him, as I can't protect him all the time. It really hurts him when DS1 gets him on the hands too. I will try not sending him to the naughty step for biting and just telling him not to do it instead and giving DS2 lots of attention. Although to be honest I've been doing all this as well as the naughty step so I'm sceptical that it's going to have any effect.