"I hit my 4 year old this morning and was so angry I didn't want to stop" - should I call social services?

[QE2]

A good friend of mine has a dd who is almost 4. She behaves like the child from hell most of the time which drives her mum to distraction. She is disruptive, aggressive, rude, nasty and spiteful. No exaggeration.

Friend phoned me less than an hour ago saying she wants to call Social Services to take her away as she does not know what to do with her anymore. Her dd was being nasty to her younger ds (who is sporting a black eye as a result of dd's temper yesterday) this morning and my friend hit her. She was on the phone crying to me saying it frightens her now as she knows she will really hurt her if this carries on.

As a former foster carer, I know a lot of strategies which may help and have imparted my wisdom on many occasions. I know that if SS do get involved it will be a long and painful process to get them back, should they be removed from her care. She is separated from her ex-p who the dd sees regularly but as her time with him is short, he doesn't get to see all this awful behaviour.

Friend has had the intervention of her HV before but she admits she has never told the full truth about how bad it really is as she has feared she will be taken into care. Friend believes something needs to be done NOW as her dd is now at risk from her.

I am tempted to phone SS myself but this will leave me in a terrible situation with my friend. Although I am not stupid enough not to realise her dd's safety must come first.

I am appealing for some thoughts to help me decide what to do for the best for my friend and her kids.

QE2, how did the phone call go ?

Secondhandrose, well done you- used to work for Homestart, we used to have waiting lists of two years. Volunteers are so badly needed, and you will be so welcome.

Well done for calling SS, it had to be done. they don't just swoop and take the kids, they do a lot of assessment beforehand- in my past professional life there were occasions when I begged them to take a child,, but they couldn't .

She will get lots of support to get the family on a safer setting I hope. it sounds like she has been through hell, so she may well ahave depression and need help with that. And whilst the DD could be NT, she does sound a bit like my AS DS1. At his worst, there were moments i thought SS shuld take him for the saefty of his brothers (he was very violent, changing with klove and time). I couldn't have been parted from him though, love him too much.

Sorry, not SS, HS.

I was that co-ordinator, I should bloody well know the difference.

Guess who has just volunteered to join HomeStart?

Turns out the co-ordinator remembers me from my fostering days with the local authority!

As far as my friend goes: they don't take referrals from family or friends. Not taking referrals atm, there is a waiting list. I called my friend back, she said she doesn't want HS involved as they are just ordinary people and don't have a clue what they are doing. Doesn't want SS as they might take her away, no-one can help her, etc, etc. Makes me wonder if she sincereyl wants help ?

I feel I have done all I can for now and it frustrates me so much.

Good for you.

If you're concerned still (I would be) you could call childline anonymously for a chat. Personally, I think you should as when they start to close down and refduse help, that's when help is needed iyswim. Go with your instincts.

It is blindlingly obvious that she needs to change her attitude towards her dd. I know this is easier said than done, but all she can see is that her dd is the problem.

Sadly not much is going to change unless she herslef does.

What about getting her and the child to go to the doctor. 5 kids, 2 others with problems, PND, a separation, being homeless etc is enough to make anyone crack up under the strain when faced with a bad day with a badly behaving child. The fact she has confided in you means she really wants your support and doesn't trust the "child professionals". Don't give up on her now. Will she be at school soon the 4 year old? Can the school where her 2nd son is at support her in any way - one presumes she has access to the SENCO?

Is dd2's dad the one who is the most recent, dodgy ex? Just thinking if her dad is OK, maybe she could spend a bit more time with him. I know you said he works, but maybe she could spend a weekend with him or something to give both of them (dd and mother) a break.

God, QE2, this is such a tough situation, I do not envy you at all. But something has to be done to help all of them. Sounds like it is just about at tipping point.

The younger 2 go to their dad's every ohter weekend for the whole weekend and one overnight stay in the week. She goes to nursery every morning and will start part time school in September.

Not quite sure why she is pleading for help but then poo-pooing every suggestion of advice? It's almost as if she "enjoys" it. I know that's not the right word/phrase but ykwim.

My friend does that too QE2 and she's borderline Social Services referral. I know depression 'nothing can help me' affects her responses but- and here I feel mean- she likes the attention too.

I hate to say this but you need to remove your friend's needs from the equation: if kid needs help then you need to call NSPCC or similar, Mum should be able to pull herself out of it but a child is defenceless and is your prime concern.
Social service DON'T just take the kids and run, but they will step in and make educated decisions if justified. I know there are bad social workers etc out there who give the rest a bad name, but those I have dealt with professionally I have admired.

In my prev. existence I worked in adult mental health as a social worker and DH is a family therapist but was a child protection social worker. there are so many misconceptions around social workers and what we do / don't do and yes, it depends on the area. My DH's borough was very proactive in offering interventions and support to avoid crises within families. DH said he frequently had parents ringing him up on duty and insisting their kids be taken into care that minute. Social workers do not jusmp in and remove kids unless the risks are extreme. There are all sorts of other things they do to help families stay together successfully and they can refer to all sorts of other projects that might help. DH co-ordinates a therapeutic service for families with children who present with emotional and behavioural difficulties at school. I also worked with women with PND - kind of my specialist area. This friend of yours may well still have some problems with depression and this scenario is not unfamiliar to me in terms of referrals I have received in the past from HVs and GPs, albeit usu. with more emphasis on the depression. I think you are in a really tricky position, but amybe a HV would be a useful way to refer her to someone as they can refer to the GP or to another specialsit team should there be something useful in your area. Not terribly helpful, I know, but just wanted to reassure you that SW's don't whisk kids away without looking back. Their brief is to work to keep the family together as much as poss..