Is this normal behaviour for a 3 year old?

[GumtreeGirl]

I think I'm a crappy mum for even posting this, but here goes:

DS1 is 3.2. He's always been demanding, requiring constant attention (as a baby he'd howl if I left the room), but recently he's taken this to new levels.

He goes to nursery 3 days a week, which he always kicks up a fuss about but actually enjoys once he's there. When he's at home, though, it's a constant flow of requests, objections, complaints ('mummy, I wanted that bowl for my cornflakes, no I don't want apple juice, I want YOUR apple juice, I want to sit in your lap, can you play with me/watch me on the toilet/ read to me/ Mummeeeee??!' Repeat-until-ears-start-bleeding)

He has a little brother, who is nearly 10 months and who is so chilled out and happy and totally different from his older brother, thank fuck, as I'd probably have gone doolally by now. I'm assuming that a large part of DS1's behaviour is down to jealousy, esp as DS2 is now mobile and has more of a personality developing.

I make a point of not giving DS1 things when he whines, insisting on P's and Q's, not leaping to fulfill his every whim - in fact the opposite as other things have to happen, like getting clothes/ dishes washed, food cooked, not to mention having time with his little brother who definitely misses out.

Today was a case in point - DS1 was playing with trainset, didn't want DS2 breaking it so I grabbed a book to read to DS2 as a distraction. Instantly I get a stream of requests to play with DS1 instead, followed by him crash landing onto my lap and effectively ending the quiet read with DS2.

It's making me really unhappy - DS1 is actually lovely, bright, funny and sensitive, so constantly having to bat him off in order to do other things is horrible, and i end up dreading the days with him. Yesterday I actually shouted 'Just leave me alone for 5 minutes!' as it had been non-stop for hours. :( Felt awful immediately, apologised and explained that Mummy wasn't very well and a bit tired so we had a cuddle, but I hate getting to that point. (PMT may well have played a part too, but still...)

Is this normal three year old stuff? Am I wrong for expecting him to be a bit more capable of playing by himself for a bit? And crucially, does it get better? And when?? Soon?? Next week maybe?

Mine is like this and has been for about a month or so. He is 2.9 and doesn't even have a new sibling as an excuse! He used to play fairly well on his own for up to half an hour but suddenly wants me to join in all the time.
He does a lot of imaginary play so I spend my days being a penguin/bus driver/gruffalo etc. If I go into another room to try and do anything he follows me in seconds shouting 'moooommmmmy! Where are you? I want you!' Or 'have you tidied up now? Can you play now? Now? Now? Now? How about now?' Etc etc.
I think it must just be normal behaviour, it is trying though without adding another sibling into the equation. I find tv helps! Bad mommy.

Oh regrets that sounds so familiar! I've introduced a 5 min count down on the cooker recently in an effort to prise myself away, but in reality this just means that the 5 minutes are spent with him bouncing around yelling '4 minutes to go Mummy, then you can play with me!' so in actual practical terms its fairly useless. :(

TV does come in vv handy (god bless Shaun the Sheep) but I try and limit it as slightly worried that I'd start using it a bit too often... DS also gets to use the iPad for 15 minutes every so often; he's into trains and level crossings, so watches videos of these on You Tube (with me wandering in occasionally to check suitability so it doesn't actually mean I get a lot other stuff done, but it does give me a few minutes peace).

I thought the age of 3 was the hardest age- and it was precisely about that constant demand for attention, the whining, the moaning. Imo every single other stage- including the teens- has been easier. Even ds, who was a beautifully laid back baby and 2 yo, got on my nerves at 3.

So yes, I think it is a 3yo thing.

It sounds EXACTLY like my DD1 was at that age, when DD2 was 1. I really wouldn't underestimate the level of jealousy that might be going on. I remember also thinking how easy and chilled out DD2 was and what hard going DD1 was, she drove me to the brink of insanity. I'm not sure what to suggest exactly, it will all get better in time, but in the mean time I think that it is really important to adjust your expectations. Firstly, lower your expectations of your DS1 considerably. It wasn't until DD2 reached that age that I realised how much I had expected from DD1 at the same age. Now DS is nearly 3 and I see so much of the same behaviour in him as in DD1 at that age (they are two peas in a pod), but my reactions to it now are so so different. He is my baby and I am now a much more experienced parent. So I have much more patience and ignoring of his bad behaviour, so much more willingness to guide him gently and put up with his whims, as a result the tantrums, bad behaviour and neediness are a lot less than DD1's were as the flash points don't arise so much. I look back now and wish I had gone more easily on DD1.

Secondly - your DS2 is unlikely to be any more of a chilled relaxed child than your DS1, he's just benefiting from being second baby (it's all so much easier second time around) and will have his own quirks and difficulties later on. My 'perfect' DD2 had her own monstrous phase around 3-4 too which was quite a shock and a wake up call. It's a tough age, needs a lot of patience to get through it!

All I can really suggest in the mean time is that you try and go out of your way to give extra cuddles to your DS1 (particularly when your mind is screaming at you that you could gladly strangle him!), a lot of the bad behaviour at this age is attention seeking I think - especially when there is sibling jealousy involved), and although it seems massively counter productive there is a lot to be said for sometimes giving the attention that is craved. Is there anyway that you can arrange once or twice a week to spend just with your DS1? They really benefit from one on one at this age and it also gives you a short space to remember how much you love him as they tend to behave beautifully when just the two of you doing something together.

My DS is like this at 4.3 - and I hate to say it but I think he might even be worse now than when he was 3.

My 4.5yo DD is like this too - except she doesn't like watching TV - arghh!!! She doesn't usually whine or moan (used to when she was 3, but is much better now), but she just wants to play with me ALL the time!

As she is at pre-school every morning and starts full-time school in Sept I am trying to embrace it and enjoy my time with her. When I do have a job to do, I will say to her 'I need to clean the kitchen first and then I will play with you'. She is very good at helping me with my jobs (putting away laundry etc) - have you tried this with your DS?

Also it will get better when your DS2 is old enough to be more of a playmate to DS1 - that may start happening in the next few months.

I agree with Nelly about being careful not to compare your DSs - I remember when my DD was the youngest and seemed like such a lovely chilled baby!

Thanks all for your advice. Have to confess I've been thinking, having read your responses and then searching MN for past threads on the subject, that there should be Warnings given, quite early, perhaps at ante-natal classes, that the
2 year old troubles then transmogrify and sometimes get worse. Ahem.

Anyway, Nelly that's good advice about having one on one time with DS1, I'd actually been thinking that I miss having time with just the two of us, and he's a lot better when he's on his own with me. We're going to one of those ceramic cafes next week, and I'm hoping that him just being with me will be a nice change for both of us.

And having said that DS2 is a dream, well, mrspepper, you may be very prescient: he's started having far more opinions about things recently, so 2 and 3 (and 4) with him may be just as awful challenging

whatever made me open this thread when my DS is nearer 2 than 3, I don't know, but please do clarify: the current default-no, "me do it" and tantrums for the most ridiculous things (mama is unable to "fix" a broken banana?) are going to be replaced by MORE of the same? Please tell me I've misuderstood and that you're really talking about the "terrible twos"?

My kids are 5 and 3 and so demanding they want me to play constantly and will not watch Tv unless I watch it with them. They do play together a bit more now but usually want me there. I put it down to the fact I have always done loads with them since they were days old, always speak to them when we are out and about, and generally involve them in my daily life. But I think I have probably done too much for them and been there for them too much because they will not play alone. My MIL goes mad when she comes round coz they won't leave her alone as they want her to play and she hates it, she brought her son (my hubby) up with very little adult interaction and hates being dictated to by small kiddies.

They are getting better but they just seem to like me to be involved because they don't know anything else, I try to stay in more now at weekends and the holidays rather than constantly entertaining them to see if they can make their own entertainment but they just get bored so quickly. They don't watch TV, and not interested in the computer, DS or Ipad, beleive me we have tried. They are both very active kids who seem to want mummy or any other adult involved with them constantly!!! aarrghh

I'm so sorry Broodzila, but it is all true. 2 is an absolute breeze compared to 3. You wil be reminiscing fondly about broken bananan related tantrums when your DS hits 3. My DS (3.2) wants me to play with him all the time. His 'thing' is action figures, so he always wants me to hold one (usually Captain America) and he holds another (Spiderman) and we have to 'talk'. We have the same converstions 45 times a day. Hello, Im Spiderman/Hello I'm Captain America/I've got blue pants/ I have got blue pants too etc etc. Drives me up the wall!

Oh and the tantrums....my DS's are no worse that they were when he was 2, but the reasons have become even more ridiculous, toddlers are so bloody UNREASONABLE! Enjoy your 2 year old while you can!

Er no, sorry this is 3 year olds for you! I'm on my 3rd set of 3yo tantrums, demands etc. Well 4th but I have dts and dd just seems so easy compared to her brother. I found 2.6 to 3.6 the worst for all 3 boys, all about independence but having separationg anxiety too imo. But the list of demands doesn't actually stop at 3, my 5yo and 8yo do it too so thank god they're at school a lot

One on one time will help (and at this age, Thursday afternoons will make some sense and give them something to look forward to) unfortunately the less you want to spend time with them the more you need to. I find it hard to be around ds3 (3.5) some days but when not losing my rag completely, try to get down on his level and just let him do what he wants. With all of my boys I've found that they start acting worse if they don't feel they're getting enough attention from me, and it's got to be me drat. A 3yo can play by himself for a bit, but he's got to feel happy to do that. If he feels ignored there's no chance. Make a pinky deal with him - I'll spend 15 mins with ds2 and then I'll spend 15 mins with you reading if you let me read to ds2. Kids like pinky deals and generally stick to them because they're honest at heart!

I have a few things up my sleeve that helps

• keeping track of how many days he's been a little tyrant because it may feel like weeks but often it's 4 or 5 days and then he calms down a bit. It's rarely full on for weeks, which makes me feel better about it!
• writing down all my frustration with his behaviour once he's gone to bed.
• Don't dismiss teething as a problem, he could be getting back molars!
• Depending on what kind of kid he is, stupid distractions like this:

ds3: what are you doing mummy? (167 times) me: feeding the llamas. Always makes him stop and think If you can get them to smile you've stopped the whinging for a little while! Another example: ds3: are you there mummy? me: no, I'm not here. ds3: but you're talking! me: no, that's a recording etc etc.

• At the end of a frustrating day, remind yourself how lovely he can be by looking at a photo or video.

HTH

I like your style accessorizequeen! I am going through terrible 3's with ds at moment. Probably 3 nights out of 6 I stagger downstairs after bedtime guilt ridden and exhausted by emotional wrangles of the last few hours before bed. You've reminded me about humour as a tool - it does work a treat. thanks!

you've all cheered me up immensely; dd1 was 3 end of Jan and is still bloody hard work, although improving (although I might be delusional)...however, I am completely sick of the sound of my own voice (and I'm an academic, so it must be really bad!!) - but I did sit down and try and think about what she hears - which is basically me endlessly telling her that what she is doing is wrong, or that she must do what I say. It works much better when I can summon the energy to be a little more thoughtful about how I put things (have a 3 month old as well, so this is rare). But she is clearly delightfully normal :)

accessorizequeen I salute you! Fantastic advice which also made me giggle!

broodzilla - I was like you a few days ago; having read the replies, comprehension is beginning to dawn, and wine is helping with this. Sigh.

Today has definitely been one of those days - sick baby, rainy, cabin fever serting in and a 3 year old who absolutely refused to do anything by himself. I actually found a great cure for getting rid of pent up frustration (his and mine) - roll around on the floor with him, growling like a lion and tickling his feet/knees. Worked a treat

Glad that helped, god knows I feel like a rubbish mother a lot of the time and don't follow my own advice but feeding the llamas does help. Oh no here comes ds3...

My DD1 is like this, and was well before the arrival of DD2 (there's exactly three years between them). Talking to parent friends, it seems like there is a huge range in temperament at this age, some of my friends report a level of self-entertaining that makes me gasp in jealous amazement. So if it seems harder to you than to your friends, that's why. That said, though, it also seems like it's inbuilt, not something you've done. Mine's been like this since birth practically - well obviously all infants are needy but you know what I mean - so the arrival of DD2 has highlighted it but not caused it.

In our case, having a new baby around has only really highlighted the issue because for the first time I just cannot cater to it. It's like a lot of couples who, pre-children, don't notice the inequality of housework division because the woman can easily keep up with doing the vast majority and still have leisure time? And then children turn up and suddenly there's more housework and less time. So, when I had one child, I could deal with her wanting to play with me all the time, and still get things done. Now I have two I really notice how much time I spend every day saying 'just wait a second, i'll help you when DD2 has finished eating, can you try and put your own shoes on and I'll come and help if you need it' etc. It is utterly exhausting, you have all my sympathy.

Just wanted to say thank you to you all: you make me feel like I'm not a horrible mother for feeling like I might combust with frustration... I'm just a mother to a toddler :)

and I too, have found that the arrival of DD has higlighted the issues as I just can't give DS all the attention all the time...

But I must confess that you're so right Queen... He definitely picks up on my frustration... The more irritable I am, the worse he gets... Vicious circle. Will try the growling lion trick, my fall-back has always been head-shoulders-knees-and-toes supersuperfast :D

My ds was like this at three (and four too, I think). But he is five now and can entertain himself for ages with lego, knex and drawing. I'm actually amazed at his concentration span.

My dd is three now and she fusses at me constantly for attention. Luckily ds takes her off and plays with her sometimes, so it is not as intense.