When you are good at something and you want your child to be too.

[wickerman]

My question is this. If you as a parent have particular skills and talents that you feel fiercely about, how do you help your children develop in those areas - either because they have shown an interest or because they are essential skills - without it being about you? This is not a question for parents of very young children.

I am basically a lone parent, but their dad has them for 3 or 4 days every fortnight/three weeks.
So as y'all know that takes a lot of logistical planning and headspace, making sure that they follow through on all the things they need to do when they are with him. Because my ex, although definitely not a twat, does do that separated dad thing of trying to make every day with him a razzle dazzle FFFFFUNNNNNNNNN! day So they are inclined to have played lots of football and eaten out a lot and watched movies and hung out with his friends but homework, practise and other improving things may not have been achieved. They are 11 and 13, so these latter, less immediately FUN! but ultimately v important things are a big part of their lives now.

So - this week my older daughter had a 500 word creative writing piece to write.
We planned out when she would do it and that she would swing by my work today with her first draft so I could have a look at it for her. She swung by, but she hadn't even started it, because her dad took them out at the weekend instead. So now she has to do it all in one go tonight and won't get my input.

I feel several things. Pissed off that he's undermined me AGAIN and that she will now not get my input, particularly as I rescheduled several meetings so that I could hang with her and do this with her.
But. What I feel MORE than this, is more alarming. I'm a professional writer. My daughter has always been excellent at writing. She is at a pretty mediocre school and has a rubbish English teacher at the moment and has gone off the boil and become a bit teenagey and I want to encourage her particularly as all her friends are very down on English. This pisses me off immensely and I am trying to counterbalance it. I am now worried that her piece will not be as good as it could have been if I had had a chance to look at it.
That's BAD isn't it? I need to let her fuck up, don't I? I need her to write a really dull, boring piece and to suffer the consequences? Do I? Or was I right in thinking I could inspire her and help her?
I KNOW I can help her, that I have the SKILLS to help her.
But am I worried that her getting a bad mark in a creative writing exercise will somehow reflect badly on ME?

I am confused. Am I mistaking narcissism for good parenting?

PS I know the whole The Prophet, "your children are not your children", thing. And I like it, as an idea. As a PRACTISE however, it's pretty difficult huh.

I am sure you could have written a far better piece than your DD, but it is her homework, not yours. If it isn't that great, it doesn't reflect on you. If it was exceptionally good, the teachers might think you had helped rather too much.

It sounds like you were overstepping the line between giving homework advice and actually doing her homework for her. Yes you should help and support her if she needs it but you shouldn't take over just because it's something you are good at. It will be a good learning experience for her if she does get a bad mark because she will learn that if you leave things to the last minute and don't plan then you won't get great marks.

I wasn't going to write it for her.Just read it through and give her some pointers to tighten it up. That's not too ridiculous is it?

I think you and her dad need words especially now they are getting older and will be getting more important homework, exams to study for etc etc. He needs to fulfill his part as a dad and help them with their studies.

Yes, I think you need to let her fuck it up.

You have 2 issues - a) your ex being Party Guy and not facilitating the stuff that they need to do. You probably need to have a quiet word - start with a positive though! But at 13 your DD should be taking more responsibility for her time management - she's old enough to be able to say "I can't go partying this weekend, Dad - I have an essay to write". You might need to point this out to her.

and b) this whole wanting her to be good at what you're good at thing. I do sympathise, a lot, but nothing is more likely to turn her off the subject than you over-emphasising its importance and getting stressy about standards. She's her own person and she'll find her own way. A bit of constructive criticism is fair enough but you do need to tread carefully here. Sit on your hands or something.

I don't think op is trying to suggest that she wanted to write it for her!!

I do think the point above that maybe her not doing brilliantly this time due to not spending time on it will be a learning experience for her. Also you possibly do need to try not to think it will reflect on you if/when she does do badly - you do say that generally she is good, but isn't that part of how we learn?!

I also feel for you on the ex front - having someone only do the FUN stuff must be really irritating (its bad enough when DP who lives with us full time thinks this is okay !?)

Talk to him about this specific piece of homework to maybe make the bigger point? Which I am guessing matters lots or you wouldn't have given so much detail?

As a one off, what's the worst that can happen? She rushes the creative writing and doesn't get as good a mark as she could with your help? So what. It doesn't matter a jot in the grand scheme of things, especially if she usually does better peices of work. It will not reflect badly on you. It might teach her not to leave her work till the last minute?

If she actually has no interest in writing then I could see how that might be hard for you, as a writer.

I know how you feel though. I do like to encourage my DS to take part in the sport that I enjoy and am good at, and have always dragged him on these sport trips, and although he takes part and does so willingly, he also is quick to remind me that this particular thing is my sport, not his. And if he turns round one day and says he wants to give it up and not do it any more I would be upset but probably ultimately have to respect his decision. But I suspect he will continue it, at least to the extent of coming along on the weekend trips with me, as it is such a normal part of his life now and one that he enjoys and involves a big circle of friends, traditions, camping, pub trips etc etc that he loves.

hassled I love this:"nothing is more likely to turn her off the subject than you over-emphasising its importance and getting stressy about standards." I agree with this. I'm definitely guilty of this. And not only in writing, I have to say. In pretty much everything I care about/think is important.

Sitting on hands, sitting on hands.

So. the verdict is.

1. Have a word with her dad.
2. Get her to take more responsibility for her own work.
3. Offer help but try and do it unconditionally???????? (so hard).

Wicker you sound like a good mum who cares, which is the most important thing. And whilst I don't have teenage children, I do have a 16 yo half sis and know that ANYTHING I have tried to force encourage her to do, she's done the opposite. I'm not even her mum ffs and it's how she reacts.

So be supportive, encouraging, set boundaries etc. But make sure you are perceptive to her other interests too. So even if you ARE always going to be most interested in writing, at least if you're interested in lots of OTHER stuff too, she cannot accuse you of being too pushy about one thing.

Oh and let your ex know that the kids won't love them any less in the long run if he says they have to do homework. He's likely to be petrified that if he has to enforce anything slightly boring on them, they won't want to hang out with him.

I completely understand your dilemma - as a musician I have a daughter who shows talent in this area, is about to take a music exam (which she was very keen to do initially) and has now completely gone off the boil in terms of practicing.

I'm afraid I put my foot down and insist - from my own experience I'm sure she won't thank me later for allowing her to screw it up and fail when she's completely capable of passing.

I don't have your issue of the unsupportive ex though, I think that needs sorting out. Can you make him understand that his daughter will regret squandering her talent in later life?

Deadbody - I'm intrigued to know what your sport is!!?

I know how you feel, I have always excelled in any sport I turned my hand to, and I love trying out new ones, and I am naturally competitive, but can accept losing (I just love competing). Two of my kids (the youngest is too young to tell), are not only not interested in any sport, they both HATE it with a passion, and any kind of competiton! I am hoping the third will share some of my genes!

Ha! Don't get me started about MUSIC I am also a musician....

I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one with this dilemma. It does help.

So - in the end what happened was she stayed up really late and did a beautiful piece of work on her own. Was really proud of her. It transpired that the school - who can be sooooooooo unimaginative - were trying to make them over think it. This completely freaked her out, demotivated her, and made her doubt her own instincts. Thus, when her father suggested they party, she was only too happy to do so.

A face/off at 9pm last night revealed all this and she went and wrote it straight. And I just reminded her about apostrophes, which, at 13, she still hasn't been taught to use properly.

So for now a happy ending, but now I need to add "trust yourself, not always your school" into the mix..... now THAT'S a tricky one to teach for a child who is anxious.

Two issues, like everyone said. Ex needs to get organised. I'm sure you will feel less stressed then.

Secondly, and I too speak as a writer, you need to get rid of your critic. It is important, when exploring creative writing, to silence your own internal critic, but to have mum peering over your shoulder with her 'expert skills' is horrid.

Creative writing can be loose and doesn't have to be drafted and redrafted.

It must be very daunting for her. Do you have heart to hearts about it? My eldest is a bit younger - but I only encourage him and make sure he has enough time. I stick to grammatical errors. It is soooo tempting to leapfrog on his fledling ideas and 'enhance' them, but I don't. His work - his words!

That's brilliant that she did such a good piece of work!

I disagree a little with the others who say back off. I think it's worth pushing kids to achieve what you know they are capable of. My dad used to "interfere" with my maths and science homework and I'm really grateful for the skills he taught me.

As regards her dad - can you help her to recognise that time spent with him is basically going to be a write-off in terms of schoolwork, and that she needs to plan to do it while she's with you? Assume the worst-case scenario that you can't get him to change his behaviour, and then any progress you make there is an upside. Plus it will be a useful life skill for managing workload at university an beyond.

conorsrockers the sport is climbing!

I'm with you on wanting my child to be good at creative writing for the same reasons, but it wouldn't occur to me to get involved in a piece they were writing for the very simple reason that I became good at writing as a result of my own creative and independent streak when I was a child. I don't think having a parent peering over my shoulder would have helped, however effective the techniques you have learned could be for the piece of writing in question. It would be offputting, I think, because writing - while it involves skill - has to be generated by enthusiasm to write. Originality is what gives you the buzz when you write. It's not comparable to playing a musical instrument.

Secondly, I agree with your suspicion that "helping" children with their homework to that extent doesn't help them in the long run. School is for making mistakes, learning to deal with failure, learning to be a self-starter. If you want to help push your children along that bit further, getting them involved with you on something academic and extracurricular in their own time would be more helpful - provided they are willing to go along with it. For example, if you were on holiday together, writing a piece based on the archaeological history of the place you were visiting for a family album. Or giving them a project that involves more sustained involvement and study than their school asks of them.

My plan - which probably won't work with my one-year-old quite yet - is to do a family magazine together, with everyone volunteering the sort of articles they want to contribute.

By the way, I'm very glad your child did so well in the end.