At a loss with my 8 year old son... don't know what to do

[jonno1212]

I have two kids, one is 3 (girl) and the other is 8 (boy).

For years, my son has been in a running battle with both of us.
From tidying up after himself to doing his homework.
Everything is a sigh, attitude, answering back or simply not listening.

We are patient with him trying a whole range of things, from telling off to rewarding and encouragement. Nothing seems to work. When it feels like progress is made, he reverts to type and we are back to square one.

This is also starting to affect our relationship, it has created a grey cloud which has hung around for several years with no end in sight.

We blame ourselves and analyse everything we have done over the years, yet our 3 year old is showing no signs of bad behaviour.

As a dad, i suffer from self esteem issues and mood swings, i suspect this is something that my son is destined for so I am desperately trying to find the magic formula to ensure he is able to lead a happy life. But I simply cannot.

I think we are too close to look at this objectively, we are starting to talk about seeing a child psychologist but don't have the money for it.

I really could do with a fresh perspective on all this... help!

I started a thread recently about my 7 year old ds - very similar to this! Not sure there's an answer - in fact if there is, please could someone tell me...? But the way I cope with it (not him, just the constant battles) is to try and keep calm and removed from it - just float on top of it all....

Easier said than done . But I always tell him he's good even when he's stropping away - like this morning he needed to have a shower. HUGE battle commences, much shouting from him and stamping around. But I just asked him nicely to come and have a shower and the minute he even inched towards the bathroom I told him he was a good boy and just left him to it. A few minutes later he was in the shower.

This works when you've got time and aren't in a rush, so I try to tell him about stuff in advance - so if I know we've got the leave the house at 2pm, I'll ask him to put shoes/coat on at about 1.45/1.50pm if possible - allowing time for strops/arguments.

When I haven't got time at all that's when things get hairy and I get shouty... But at least I've saved it for when I need it....

It's really, really hard. Just know you're trying your best, doing a good job and with a bit of luck it's a phase and won't last... We also have a 10 year old ds who is lovely and wonderful - so I have hope

One problem i have is the shouting, i struggle in keeping cool and end up shouting back. I know this is wrong, but heat of the moment and the lack of respect and appreciation for everything he gets is where the red mist rises from.

We also tried planning well in advance so he knows whats about to happen, this leads to him reading a book until the last minute. If we remind him, he then gets snappy at us.

In terms of behaviour, we noticed that he gets obsessed in reading books, he will read 5 books at a time, clearly not taking in everything he is reading. I suggest reading one book at a time and to take his time and enjoy it, we then try and talk about it afterwards but all i end up with is a stoney silence.

He definitely has self esteem issues, he is scared to try new things for fear of failing at them. I have driven the message home that trying is key, people will succeed or fail and point out how i have succeeded and failed over the years, but trying is whats important. again, deaf ears.

So I think the thing is not to engage in the battles with him where at all possible - just tell him what he needs to do - homework/shower/whatever - and then leave him to it if it's possible, i.e. if there's time to allow for the inevitable protesting...

Reward whenever you can - does he get pocket money? We give ds's £1 a week but they have 2 jobs a week each to do. Could he earn some money in this way - start having a sense of responsibility and independence?

Please don't blame yourself - you sound really thoughtful and lovely - it's just a phase.....

Just read your message. Re: the books - do you need to talk them through with him, i.e. are they school books that he needs to talk to you about? If not, I'd leave him to just read what he wants in the way that he wants - it's great he's reading at all (compared to my ds1 ). Ds1 doesn't read books - only those he absolutely has to for school. But we know he can read (he reads tons of football magazines...) so that's fine - not worth having a fight over it.

Pick your battles! Ds1 also hates to fail so I'm not sure how you tackle that one. It's a really difficult one because I've found no amount of telling him it's OK to give something a go and not be perfect works... I think that's his personality and he'll adapt what he does to suit - so he plays football loads cos he's good at it but he's never going to enjoy or play basketball for fun because he's not so good.

Sigh. It's not easy and it's so bloody exhausting - easy for me to suggest stuff when I'm at work (ahem) and away from my little sod darling...

wrt books, I GOBBLE them up, that's not necc a problem

Ratchet down the shouting; as you have found out, all you get is a sore throat

Rewind your expectations a bit - do you give 10 min/5 min/2 min warnings til it's time to go out? Nothing worse for a child ABSORBED in a book to be suddenly YOINKED away from it (I speak from experience here)

Board games/cards = a good way to learn to fail

Do you smile much?

How much attention do you give when he's being ''good'' (hate that word). He might well have discovered that he can garner attention by behaving like this.

Sometimes behaviour can be helped by dietary changes/supplements - particulary Omega 3 fish oils. You may want to have a lookat the book:

www.amazon.co.uk/Optimum-Nutrition-Your-Child-Behaviour/dp/0749953535/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1329401839&sr=8-20

@DottyDot - We tried rewarding him with time on the wii, tv time, pocket money. I find this only works when he wants to play on the wii, so for example, if he isn't in the mood to play on the wii, he will happily not carry out his chores. So i find the rewarding idea flawed in that sense. His behaviour is based on his wants, so we tried a "number of gold stars in a week" thing for him to appreciate that good behaviour "accumulated" is where he will earn his reward. He instead opted to do without the rewards. As for books, we do leave him too it, we let him read as much as he wants. But i feel this is his little place to escape, in books.

@BoysAreLikeDogs - We did smile a lot, as the years went on it became harder and harder to the point where in all honesty i don't think we do anymore.

@kotuku - He has been having fish oil for several years as well as vitamins. So its def not dietary related. We take great care in balancing his food with good/not so good stuff.

Awww - I really feel for you... The smiling thing's such a shame - for you as well as him

Maybe have a massive try and 'fake it until you make it' - which is sometimes what I'm reduced to, to be honest (with all my family, not just ds2!). Just literally grin and bear it....

It's good he escapes in books - I used to love doing that as well and it's great he's such an avid reader.

Would a financial incentive work for doing certain jobs or getting tasks done? Is he interested in buying stuff? Ours love having enough money for magazines/sweets/crap toys and it definitely incentivises them.

Wish there was a magic answer 'cos it's such a shame you're all so low. Are there any places or activities where he's always or automatically happier? Sometimes it's good to use those places/activities as a trigger to get back that good mood. So if I take ours to a certain park it pretty much always ends well 'cos they're both happy there even though I hate parks?

Is your ds happy with his friends - I'm always gobsmacked at how different my ds1 (who is a very quiet, serious, sensible child at home) is with his friends - all lively and shouty and bubbly. If he's got friends and is happy with them, that's good - especially if he gets invites to other people's houses - gives everyone a break!

Anyway, good to chat on here at the very least - nothing like a bit of a vent if you need it...

I think i am stuck in a place where i simply don't want to spend time with him. He seems to go out of his way to select options which he knows goes against everyone else. e.g. music, if he knows everyone wants to listed to radio 1, he will demand radio 2. We then switch to radio 2 and he will then leave the room as he sees it as a victory. So if we then decide not to give in and remain on radio 1, a tantrum ensues. As for financial rewards, i can't help but think he is already spoilt, he has no appreciation for our financial plight so will demand everything and anything, and it is takings its toll on us having to constantly say no. We simply cannot afford the financial route, (we once could, long story!).

A bit of space might be good though - it's not necessarily a bad thing to not want to spend time with your children (ahem). Just keep asking him does he want to do whatever with you (I'm permanently asking ds's if they want to do some baking or help cook tea/whatever you normally do each day or week - ds1 surprised me by saying yes for the first time this week!) but leave it if he doesn't want to.

And are you getting enough time with your dw/dp (and I've just re-read your original post and have realised you're a dad, not a mum )? Dp and I tend to get bogged down in the daily grind of it all - we've started to put a once a month date night in (after 20 years together we've just thought of this...) to escape and give us a chance to either not talk about the kids at all, or at least be somewhere else while we are...

Does he feel the odd one out in your family? Ds (11) is a bit like that; because he is very diffferent from the rest of us in tastes and interests, and it does make him quite persistent about pushing "his" things, like what food he wants or what television channel to watch. And he can seem very negative to anything that's "ours"- because he feels left out and different. We do our best, quelling any direct rudeness, but also trying to take an interest in "his" things, his music, his sports.

I don't think you necessarily can change your ds, at least not instantly. But what you can change is your reactions. Can you manage not to react to having to say no? To settle for the deed (e,g. the homework getting done) and ignoring the sigh?

I felt quite sad for your son reading your post. It is very hard dealing with negativity in children. But he is only 8. You seem quite hung up on all the things he should be grateful for, and ways in which he should be "better behaved". You haven't said anywhere what you like about him. What you value in his company or his talents.

I think that's where you have to start. Enjoying being with him. I think you sound like you are frightened of not setting boundaries and making clear to him what is unacceptable, so frightened you don't dare say many nice things to him. He in turn has decided the battle for attention is only worth fighting with negative behaviour.

One of the things I notice about your post is the use of the words rewards, in which you use things like Wii TV and gold stars. Maybe it is not working because he doesn't really want any of those things, just your approval and your love. It is almost as if you are working to some system all the time.

I've had loads of difficulties with my daughter 9, also there's an ASD son of 9 (twin) and son 11. I know she wants my attention, and she felt my sons' collared most of it for various reasons. I had to go back to the beginning when she was about 6 or 7 and make tremendous efforts to treat her almost as a much younger child, listening to her, being with her, chatting to her and almost replaying some elemental bond (no I'm not a lentil weaver) It made such a difference to stop expecting things of her but just be with her and listen to her. There were so many problems when my son was first diagnosed with ASD that I ended up taking her to child pyschotherapist, and I have to say that was worth every penny. I began to see things from her point of view, and stopped trying to change her, but change myself and my reactions to her.

Before that I wanted people to agree with me that she was difficult, and what changed was that I began to see our relationship was difficult, not my child.

It takes a while to change patterns, don't expect your child to warmly embrace you the minute you make overtures - the natural response from someone who's been hurt is to rebuff all overtures and to invite further reactions, that's their pattern. But if you can find something you can enjoy doign together and also discover what's makign you feel anxious in the way you deal with your son (a lot of talk of chores, him being spoilt etc? Did your parents have high expectations of you and did that make you feel bad etc..you have to be very frank with yourself)

Please please try and find something small and positive to say to your child every two hours, it could just be "I like the way you read so much" and no "buts" why do you read so fast you can't possibly understand...which undermines the fact you said something positive. It works, it really works. They will continue to be difficult, but there will be light at end of tunnel etc..

And above all stop beating yourself up for having failed as a parent, that ime is the first thing you have to turn around and start thinking of your parenting skills in a very positive way, you are not a law giver you are a life enhancer, and you've done so many good things for your child (for a start he's a brilliant reader!)