Controlled Crying - The details

[Joannezipan]

I go back to work in 4 weeks and 4 weeks ago my 7 month old son started waking in the night many many times and is shifting his feeding to the night. As an example last night was pretty typical. Tea at 5:30 bed at 6:15 with his dad, feed in the dark bedroom, song, into bed (we then do a story if he isn't already screaming) 30 mins of screaming followed by him coming down going in his pushchair and being rocked to sleep. Asleep by 8. he woke at 9, drank 8 oz of milk, went back to sleep, woke at 10:30, soothed back to sleep, woke at 11, soothed back to sleep, woke at 12, soothed back to sleep, woke at 1, didn't go back to sleep until 4, slept in the spare bed with DH until 6:45. We have tried more gentle methods of geting him to sleep, but he now always needs to be held or rocked and it is getting worse. I don't know how we got in such a mess in 4 weeks. before this started he was sleeping 12 hours since he was 8 weeks old! So please don't tell me CC is wrong and nasty etc...I think it is the only option we have left but I need some more details. I understand the whole so 2 min, go in do 5 min go in do 10 min go in bit, but how long do you keep going for? I mean eventually there will be something else wrong like a dirty nappy or needing a feed if it's during the day. And if they just keep going what do you do?

At night you keep going until they go to sleep.
If its during the day you put them down when they would have napped do the whole every 10 mins thing and if they still haven't slept get them up and continue the day without the nap keeping them awake until next sleep is due ( easier said than done)
DEFINATELY no bringing out of the bedroom once put to bed. All you do is go in lie them back down if necessary. Say bed time, or night night or whatever short phrase you choose then leave.
ABSOLUTELY no eye contact.

It is truly horrid to do by the way. I hope your nerves are ready as you need to do this for as many days as it takes for him to learn to go back to sleep on his own. You have to be prepared to see it through otherwise you are reinforcing the fact that eventually he will be picked up in the night/at nap time.

You know your son best and I am sure you are sure that there is no other underlying problem that is causing him to wake otherwise?

Just in case you wanted to try a softer approach first - the no-cry-sleep-solution by Elizabeth Pantley is an excellent book, and I would recommend it as being more suitable for a 7 month old than CC.

That saying, i only tried CC once, and it broke my heart so I've never tried again.

oh - I also wanted to say that my DD used to sleep through the night, but suddenly at 4 months old started waking every 40 mins - it's better than that now, i think its more like every 2 hours.

It's a developmental thing, digestive system changes and they need more milk/ sleep cycles change around. I have to feed/rock to sleep no too. I'm not sure that as this age you can be certain that they don't need feeding. Would be interesting to hear responses from others that have tried cc at 6/7 months.

I don't think that CC is your only option tbh.

Have you tried feeding him when he won't be soothed back to sleep? Even if he slept 12 hours straight before, babies are always going through growth spurts so he could actually be hungry? Have you tried water. Is he teething? Seperation anxiety?

It's certainly not abnormal for a 7month old to be waking at night.

I know you're going to want a full nights sleep though when you go back to work so I would also recommend the "No Cry Sleep Solution"

I read something really interesting - perhaps by Dr Sears? That was asking why any mother feel she has a right to a nights sleep,over the needs of a baby. And they are very real needs: for food, a clean nappy or just for love and reassurance.

I'm back to work next month, when dd will be 7 months old - I've adjusted to her needs by co-sleeping (easy as I'm breast feeding) if she wakes she helps herself, so we are both awake for only a short while before we both drop off again.

From your op it sounds like you are bottle feeding so this must be harder for you - as you have to stay awake for the feed - Is your DH able to take a more active night time role?

why any mother feel she has a right to a nights sleep,over the needs of a baby?

Um, because there is no risk that the baby will drop the mother down the stairs or crash the car or lose her job because she's so fecking crap at concentrating due to sleep deprivation the next day?

(Obv not including important stuff that needs attention like pain, nappy, fear, food etc, am talking about plain whinging or just acting up)

I'm trying to find where i read it - but I think in the wider context we get used to very little sleep - I've been on these 2 hourly wakings, or more - who knows in the bliss of co-sleeping! for 2 months now - it was death to begin with, but now I'm used to it, and it's not an issue.

But yes stepford - I get your point. If you can not adjust than there will be a problem.

I did CC with my middle one, twice, successful both times. Twice because I lapsed after he had a bad bout of illness and we fell back into bad comfort patterns of him coming into my bed to fall asleep.

It took 3 nights each time. It isn't easy but I found it to be quick really and effective. If you can arrange for someone to be around in the day to get your head down or just space out for a bit then that would be great.

You really need to decide what your routine wants to be, your rules of engagement (i.e. are you going to say back to bed or not speak), whats acceptable (i.e. you wont go in if they're making noise but lying the cot, you will if they are noisy and standing), use a clock don't guesstimate the times between popping in above all commit to it regardless of how long it feels like its taking (which is why it'd be good if you can arrange for someone else to be around a bit in the day if needed).

Lots and lots of different methods of parenting exist many of them work for the child and society. This is your child, your choice.

Realise I've been a bit bolshy - sorry.

Agree with "your child, your choice."

Oh and this by Dr Sears got me through those every 2 hour wake up calls > >

Babies will wean and someday they will sleep through the night. This high maintenance stage of nighttime parenting will pass. The time in your arms, at your breast, and in your bed is a relatively short while in the life of a baby, yet the memories of love and availability last forever.

Ok so it doesn't help with the sleep but it does remind you that "This too shall pass"

intrigued to know if mother panda has more than one child. I think controlled crying happens by accident when you have more than 1 child.

Eg.
Dc3 (baby) goes down to sleep.
Dc2 (toddler) wants book and cuddle, very special time.
Dc3 (baby) wakes up and cries.
Mother ignored dc3 as Dc2(toddler) is crying because she wants her book finished and another cuddle.
Dc3 screaming.
Mother heads up stairs.
Dc1 (8) vomits.
Dc3 left for few more minutes.

Finally mother gets to DC3 who is now fast asleep.

You get my drift. Unless you have one child how can you possibly avoid a baby crying and left unattended fora bit?

I have 2 children.

The youngest gets BF to sleep while the older one sits with his warm milk & Peppa pig then I do his stories and he goes to bed.

There's always other options to CC. Even when you have more than one child.

ooh - what a lovely quote

I guess what my one-sided arguments are trying to say is.

Is this really a problem? Can you learn to treasure these night wakings and relish in the fact that only you can fulfill your babies needs?

No - I only have one child, that's true!

In some ways I don't mind 'accidental' controlled crying - I must be guilty of this too when dd is in her pushchair and is demanding feeding, but i ignore her untill I find a bench etc - That's just parenting.

I find it hard to understand the intentional act of cc; Sittting outside the door doing nothing but watch the clock, when you could be comforting your child.

Mumsnet is so interesting, it brings out the opinionated in me - I wouldn't dare to say these things in RL.

I think that's different from CC. I've heard mums who left LOs crying for 2 hours. (That's from a mums group I went to btw). The mum swears by it and said her LO sleeps through after that. But I just can't leave my one crying for hours. Especially we are talking about 6/7 mo babies.

Anyway mine has stopped sleeping through from around 6mo. Previously she goes 10-7 from 2mo. She now has a feed at around 9 or 10 and another through the night. I can't be sure she actually doesn't need milk given she only has 4 bf at 10mo.

I'm thinking the OP might need to give another bottle too.

Hi there

I feel your pain, DS used to wake a lot in the night and I was in bits at the thought of doing any sort of sleep training.

My friend then introduced me to a method which is a combination of cc and PUPD (baby whisperer). It worked within three nights (DS was 6 MO). We have used it since then whenever something has happened to disrupt his sleep (illness etc). I have probably told 7 other mums how it works (one mum on here) and their DC have all selpt through after a couple of nights.

If you would like the details send me a pm

It's definitely worth a go!

And ofc I've let my LO cried. I have always cook my lunch and dinner, and showered through her crying. But like motherpanda I can't sit outside listening to the cry when I'm doing nothing.

I did un-controlled crying after not sleeping for about 4 months. :)
Most of the crying done by me...

I don't think there is anything wrong with letting them cry

Joannezipan - cc can very very beneficial to a baby, directlyhave (baby learns to self soothe and this becomes a foundation for life long good sleep habits) and indirectly (you get the sleep you physically need which makes you an even better and more effective provider of wellbeing for your baby). You need to make the choice as to whether cc is right for your baby and whether now is the time. That night you described sounds hellish if a regular thing and if you are sure your baby is not ill or hungry my personal view is that some sleep training would be the right thing for everyone in your family.

If you go ahead with it, the more confident, bright and breezy you are, the better. The message you are giving is: everything is fine and you will be fine putting yourself to sleep. Show that everything is fine in your manner and don't show stress. If you can't bear it otherwise, put your ipod in during the waiting times. When you go in to soothe, you can reassure yourself that your baby has no temperature, no dirty nappy etc, no other reason why the baby shouldn't be left.

I have to admit I find motherpanda's comments quite annoying as they could be interpreted as saying "I am coping with little sleep, you should learn to too." That is not her decision to make, some people physically can't.

Vezzie, I find your comment that CC is beneficial to baby rather annoying.

There is absolutely no benefit to ignoring a crying baby when they are trying to communicate, in the only way they know how, that they are hungry, lonely, want a cuddle, scared etc.

There is more than enough research on the Internet the shows the effect that CC has on babies and it's not a good effect either.

When we become parents we are fully aware that there will be sleepless nights and so we have to adapt to that.

Is it really right to leave a baby crying because the parent says so?

I don't know about anyone else but I parent my children by making sure they are happy, well fed, cuddled and if they are crying I find out why and comfort them. Why would I stop that just because the clock has struck 7pm?

Like I said, there are plenty of other nicer/gentler/better options than CC if you have got to breaking point with lack of sleep.

Sorry - I realise that's how I come across - I think I was just trying to get OP to think if there are any other, gentler, ways of making everyone happy.

Was throwing in a few 'think outside the box' ideas I think - which I realise are not always welcome.

As I said, it was a very wrong choice for me and my family, and I have since done an awful lot of research on it which makes my being anti-cc very clear. And because it was wrong for my one and only baby, I find it hard to see how it could be right for any other - see?

I understand MotherPanda, and I'm not entirely sure it is the right choice for us, but i'm at the end of my tether. DH is already up a lot in the night with DS and the goes to work. I can't see where we can get any more reserves from and it is getting worse and worse and worse. DH has been trying to get DS to sleep now for an hour and there is no sign of it working any time soon and we are both beginning to dread evening and nights.

vezzie I agree and you said that way more eloquently that I ever could!

OP I've done CC on both DCs at (DS at 7mo and DD at 1yr) as a last resort as NOTHING worked (threw NCSS out the window with the last of my sanity) and like you I was going back to work on both occasions. I think you've won half the battle as you are not feeding in the night and so you can feel reassured that they are not hungry. Does your DS ever self settle. If yes, then you're almost there and it will be quicker and less painless. I highly recommend reading Dr Ferber's book or getting it out the library as it is really clear in there exactly what to do (and if you're not too tired a very nice explanation of how sleep cycles work and all about sleep associations). PM me if you can't get to a copy and I'll write it out for you.

I am not doing it for naps at the same time as nights as I find it all a bit too much at once but it doesn't seem to make a difference to how it's gone at night. The night bit is the important bit for me and I rock or put in the pushchair in the day and I'll just tackle it a a later date.

As alison says its horrible. Do you have a supportive DP, friend or relative who can hold your hand at night for a couple of nights?

It's worth going to see a helpful HV or GP first just to check there are no health issues and really for your peace of mind that a professional agrees its a good idea! I use super absorbent nappies so no need for night changes and always offer water and calpol after 10-15 minutes or so of crying to eliminate the thought of babies thirsty or in pain.

It definitely works but you do have to be absolutely sure you can go through with it and it's the right thing for you as consistency over the next few days/weeks is the key. Once you start, at the beginning you can't waver for a second cos it will stop working!

Good luck!

Priscilla, I realise my first sentence is garbled (not used to the keyboard) but the word "can" is in there - "can be beneficial". I am not stating that it is always the right thing to do. I believe that it can be beneficial - directly - because because I believe that sleep is beneficial to health and putting good sleep within the control of the child - in the right way at the right time - can be a good thing. I am sorry if you find that annoying, but actually, what the hell, not very sorry.

"because the parent says so?" Yes. I make my dds do all kinds of things they don't want to because I say so. They are 2 and 9 months and, you know what, I know best. They can't eat ice cream for breakfast, they can't run into the road in front of traffic, they can't watch TV all day, they can't play near the cooker. Why? because I say so. Bwah ha haha ha ha ha I'm EEEEEEEEEEVIL

Iwillonlyeatbeans - I would like to know your method!