I need innovative suggestions to get 4 yr old to do good bedtimes

[alittleteapot]

She's never ever been easy to put to bed but it had got better - but lately (partly backlash against starting school I guess) she's being very hard work, getting up after stories declaring "Well I'm getting up." Shouting at me: "it's not up to you!" And generally being tricky. She has a good solid bedtime routine. Have tried reward systems, have tried no tv next day for messing around at bedtime. They work when she wants them to work but other times she's not bothered. Trouble is she's so tired it's like she's out of control, loses her rag, cries and cries, then melts into cuddles then finally goes to bed. Need some clever counterintuitive ideas I feel. Anything out there? Or is this just terrible fours and another phase I have to try and ride out? It's exhausting and a horribly negative way to end the day.

ps: she's worst with me, bit better with dp, angelic with babysitter.

we got our 3yo a torch to play with and he tells us to leave now!! your dd might be too grown up for in the dark torch fun but ds loves it and is always asleep when we pop back.

Story tape...?

An exciting new toy that she can only have to keep with her at bedtime that she can choose but loses if she faffs about?

Thank you! Torch would be trouble I think - a licence to mess about and she shares with her younger ds so got to fit with him. Poss story tape - yes, we should try - and poss toy although wd only work as long as novelty I think...

We moved forward bedtime when she was getting difficult because she is much more difficult when she is overtired, so we started sending her to bed at 6.30, knowing that she hits supertired at about 7. If she has been worse since starting school then maybe it is exhausting her and she needs more sleep?
We have found we have to be so strict with dd - if we relax the routine at all she is hellish for weeks. We point out dark rings round her eyes and explain she will not be able to have so much fun if she's tired, sometimes she listens.

I tried that tonight wonderstuff. had them in bed by 6.45. They were finally asleep at 8.45. In that time I lost it, she lost it, he lost it. Not pleasant.

she starts talking to me in the voice she uses when pretending to be her teacher. it's quite funny really, but frustrating when you just want them to go to sleep!

Start the calming down process really early (after tea?). My 4 year old is a monster if he gets worked up and excited, and takes hours to settle.

The trick I am using at the moment (without any expectation of it working for much longer) is to try a bit of reverse psychology - "I know there is no way you are going to be able to go to sleep quickly"..."no Mummy, I bet I can"..."can you really? why don't you show me?". Suspect it won't last, and that it's just my slightly strange son, but for now it's what I am relying on.

We are having exactly the same problem. The first few weeks after she started school were great, bed at 7pm and zonked out at 5 past. Tonight is the same as most other nights. She had a story (bath yesterday) at 7pm but here it is almost 10pm and she is still awake and mucking about.

Every night we get the delaying tactics. 5 minutes after leaving her in bed she's shouting "wipe my bottom" from the toilet. Then she needs water. Then it's just general banging about. We try to ignore but in the last few nights she's taken to coming down. We'd always consoled ourselves with the thought that at least she stayed in bed :( I found her on the stairs the other night. She didn't half jump when she saw me.

It would be OK if she just wasn't tired, but in the mornings she won't wake up (still asleep at 8.20am when school starts at 8.55), plus she has dark circles under her eyes.

I think I might try wonderstuff's 6.30pm. The only trouble is she normally goes up after the goodnight song on cbeebies so she'll know it's "too" early. perhaps we'll trick her with the iplayer

Sorry you're having a hard time to Gladys, but glad it's not just us. Ours was crashing out at 7 (for first time ever!) at beginning of year too, but not anymore!

I guess partly they feel so constricted by routine and doing what they're told at school they play up at home. But ours is the same in that we're having to drag her out of bed at 8.15 to get to school hurriedly but more or less on time.

I guess it makes me feel a bit sad as although people say a lot of this is normal it doesn't feel right to me and makes me feel she's just too young to be at school.

We had from around that age and still use when needed a "get out of bed free" system. DS was and can still go through stages of being the king of mucking about at bedtime so we would do the solid routine, he das to try and do a wee, teeth, jammies, stories bed. He is allowed to then listen to one audio book and lights out. After lights out he has a "get out of bed free" card. He can spend this once per night so he might get a drink for example. Once it is spent then that is it no more getting out of bed, if he does get out of bed once it is spent then he loses the same amount of time off tv next day that he is out of bed. It has worked very well for us and we have phased it in and out as necessary over the years.

good idea. the trouble with dd is by the point it all goes wrong her determination and tiredness seem to cancel out any such deal.