Concerned about DS (2.4) and could use some advice please - development a little bit... wonky?

[fuzzpig]

By which I mean some areas are great, and in others he is very much behind. I'm struggling to articulate my worries here, so I am just going to write a list and if any of you could talk about it with me I'd be really grateful. So it probably will seem like drip feeding but it's not intended in a bad way - I'm just finding it hard to get everything down at once.

Good stuff:

• Physically he has developed quite normally in terms of sitting, walking, jumping etc.
• Really great at stuff like jigsaws, building (especially train set) and that sort of thing - not genius-great, but good at them and enjoys them.
• Can be super-cuddly and affectionate, eg gives DD a kiss if she's upset.
• Can do simple imaginative play like feeding baby, using phone etc.
• Can concentrate on stuff like matching colours on peg boards.
• Very expressive, really funny and cute like when he says "oh no!" in a really dramatic voice.
• Easyish baby, had a brief clingy phase, BFed to sleep etc and was in our room until 2, but made the transition fine and now settles/sleeps like an angel.

So, main worries:

• Speech is a BIG issue. He certainly can't have more than 50 words, if that. Hasn't really put any together. Signing classes helped a bit. We went to a speech therapy group designed to help and they've said they will contact us in March to check progress. I'm not sure there has been any. When he was referred to this, the SALT (who assessed him at a drop in session) said it was most likely just a slight delay as in other ways he was fine.

• Hitting is another problem (only at home). He hits a lot and pulls DD's hair. He understands when he's being told off but unlike DD doesn't learn from it. And yet at other times he is overly passive and subdued.

• Group situations is something I'd not really thought about until recently; I read on another thread that it is often an indicator of a problem if they don't 'get' that they are supposed to sit down etc. DS definitely doesn't (things like the signing class and speech therapy group were nightmares). But then he's only 2 so that is probably normal... I don't know!

• A bit obsessed with things like his Thomas puzzle which he gets out every day, sometimes several times. Again I figured that is probably normal at this age. He was lining cars and animals up very early.

• Pointing/grunting is his preferred method of communicating. He will always come to me and tell me (with an excited squeak) to look at something, usually turning my head to look at it. But it doesn't work the other way round. It is just about starting to happen if we say 'where's daddy' or 'where's the [animal or toy]' in a book. He will not do this for people though... He rarely says 'mummy' even though he can.

In short (!) until now I'd just thought he was a typical 2yo boy with a slight speech delay. Everything else was dismissed... I admit I thought nothing like ASD could be possible because he is so sociable and cuddly so all the little things have been dismissed as cute quirks. I've only just learnt (thanks to MN) that being cuddly is by no means evidence against it - what I learned about ASD in college is clearly outdated.

So now I'm adding up everything else and wondering if maybe there is something else going on. But then it could be because he's not had enough stimulus in those areas - we have had a very tough year and DH who is now the SAHP cannot take him out much (back injury) and they play a lot but there's lots of DVDs etc, more than there should be. Between an injured dad and a mum with depression, DS has missed out on a lot. We are trying hard to improve things and have been following SALT advice etc.

And how do I go about finding out for sure? Is it even possible at this age? If I told a GP what I've written they'd shove me out the door with a 'wait and see'. He probably won't start preschool until September and I am worried he will be hitting others or not getting his own needs met (otherwise we would probably put him in a private nursery a couple of times a week now, as we did with DD).

I really have no clue where to go from here and I know there are lots of people with similar experiences so I would really appreciate some advice or even just further questions to clarify my thoughts.

I'm not an expert at all, but to me that all sounds normal for his age. My DS2 is 2.3, his speech is a little ahead of what you describe, but apart from that he sounds very similar (except the good sleeping bit... sigh).

This sounds v similar to my dd. she has just started salt but no improvement yet. I'm getting a repeat sogs assessment done and going to get a referral to a paediatrician. Don't delay, get advice from your health visitor and gp.

Thank both - 2 different opinions already, at least I know I'm right to be confused! :)

What does sogs mean please?

he sounds like my ds2 who was 2 last month, i was worried if he could have something like asd too but people who have seen him said no its just speech delay... am still waiting for him to get some help with the speech

My sister in law has two sons (5 and 3). The first was talking at length using very many words by the time he was 3, yet the second one still babbles nonsense at the same age. I was starting to become concerned but now it appears he is talking properly recently so it doesn't seem as if he couldn't speak properly, but rather wouldn't.

Might be the same thing, you think?

You've mentioned ASD, and and there are a lot of "red flags" in the descriptive list of how you DS is/behaves.

My DS3 (14) has Aspergers, is intelligent, funny, loving, does "get" many social cues but not in an age-appropriate way (socially and behaviorally is several years behind where he should be, but is academically ahead in most areas).

His development at 2 to 3 years was pretty much as you say, but speaking in sentences, with a larger vocab (but structure and use of speech was not normal). He still found it really difficult to use He/She at age 4, despite having SLT and used to copy chunks of speech with the exact accent he had heard them spoken in (sounded very theatrical!), and he would use these chunks of dialogue in ALMOST the right way.

Your DS is still really young but I think it's worth raising your concerns with your GP and setting the wheel in motion, if he's just a little more spectrum than average (we nearly all have some of these AS traits), they won't diagnose him, and you've lost nothing, but if he does have some "real" issues, the earlier a diagnosis is made, the sooner he can access help, and that will smooth his path into school life too.

Yes I was wondering about it being laziness! That's what we've dismissed it as for ages, and it's what the SALT advice was mostly based on - things like encouraging him to try saying what he wants before giving it to him, rather than giving it when he points.

Thank you om42. Do you think a GP would listen? I don't want to push for something needlessly but then like you say if there is something then the sooner the better.

I am wondering if I should ask for hearing tests too - in the SALT assessment it basically amounted to "does he turn round when you say his name" (yes) but is that all there is to it? He doesn't respond all the time. I keep seeing the phrase Glue Ear on MN is that something I should check out? He has a lot of colds/wheezes etc if that's related

I had three girls, all clever and very articulate. Speaking clearly with huge vocabulary at young age. On a family holiday at 18 months dd1 would argue with me in whole sentences and was clearly understood by everyone.

Then I had ds. I was very worried about ds - his speech was terrible, he was hard to make out. He only had about 5 words by 18 months. Some sounds were still had to make out when he started preschool at 2.5.

He also would not sit still in a group situation, was physically nasty with his sisters, went through a hitting phase at toddlers. Had big issues sharing

He's now 4 and his speech is fine :) He still thumps his sisters (especially dd3 (6) regularly. DH tells me he used to thump his brothers loads, he says it's the say boys show affection .

Have his ears tested by all means, but try not to panic yet! he sounds very 2 year old boy to me :)

Hi op. Not sure what help i am but since i have a 2.3 year old I thought id help you compare a little.
we dont have any problems with speech. she often speaks in about 4 word sentences. Understands loads and loads more than she actually says.
She is a hitter. Its hard work as have to be very observant around other children, but as far as I can gather its a completly normal phase. I warn, then time out for 2 mins then leave if possible. To be honest these strategies are heing me cope with it more than helping her stop it, but I hope that with time the connection will be made and she'll control her impulses better. She quite likes the reaction of a sad child and prefers ii if i raw a sad rather than a smiley face .
my dd would probably recognise if others are sitting down but would need me to guide her to sit with them. If shes bursting with energy, she might just spring back up and start jumping.

a couple of other things:
I dont know much about asd, sorry.
there a great dvd called learn to talk by oxbridge baby. My dd came on quickly with her speech after watching this as little as 4 times, though she was more like 18 months when I found it.
I would think nursery would be good for him, just a couple of mornings a week. I dont do this myself (sahm) but i do go to 3 or 4 toddler groups a week or have a friend and toddler at the house quite often for half an hour. I think nursery will be fine with the hitting -im sure theyre used to that.
I wonder if your DH could find some toddler website with games to play/activities to do/craft projects to make. I do this quite often and it does stop me putting a dvd on for a quiet life! Though dvds do have their place I find .
hope some of this helps.

Sounds exactly like my son who is 2 years and 1 month. Can't understand a single word he says except Woody, Slinky dog and Buzz (which he is obsessed with!)
I really think your son sounds completely normal. I am sure your GP would refer him for hearing tests given your speech concerns and recurrent cold/wheeze. My son had this also and has mild glue ear but does not need intervention.
It really sounds normal to me as a mother but perhaps your health visitor should be your first point of call?

Both mine DS's were very similar at the same age. Neither said very much until they were much older. DS1 is now 5 and completely normal, th still comes out as f but apart from that in top 20% at school. DS2 (3)'s speech is okay, vocab good, still obsessed with one thing at a time (currently magnets and marbles), but again know alphabet and good at nursery.
Interestingly DD1 is 9 months and her speech is far above that of the boys at the same age - we get lots of dadadada mamama and waving, clapping and she is just generally more sociable and interested in other people than the boys were..

There are some ASD traits in there, but there are other points that are completely opposite of a typical child presenting with ASD.

For example cuddling, my autistic child HATED to be touched, consolled, cuddled or kissed, he would physically push you away from as young as 16 months, before he could even walk or crawl properly and would scream and cry at the dreaded thought of being kissed! And that is a very predominant autistic trait.

Some children are just so, better in some areas whilst slower in others. My 2.1 year old doesn't even play with toys he throws them all around his room, so putting a peg board with colours in front of him would just end up thrown about with no attempt or little interest in putting them right, he just wants to run around! Where as your child (simular age) is more advanced in that respect. My 2.1 year old repeats everything, a bit of a parrot but there is no way he has 50+ words that he actually knows for specific objects, just a few two word phrases such as "good night". To your son sounds like a normal little boy - and boys usually take slightly longer to talk.

But as I've said before trust your own instincts.

While I agree there are some red flags in what you describe, it could at the same time be a typical 2 year old. It is very hard to pin point at that age. I think too that the speech issues may make you hyper aware of other behaviours iykwim. My 7 year old with Aspergers is not a typical presentation of Aspergers and I knew fairly definatively at age 2.4 that there was more to him but not what. Follow your instincts, it may mean a couple of wasted appointments to find out he is fine or it may mean that you get information on his development that enables you to support him in a way that best meets his needs if he is on the spectrum.

I would definitely ask for a hearing test (a proper one at the hospital). Speaking as someone with a hearing loss myself, just responding to your name doesn't cover it.

Thank you, have been over things in my head far too much and trying not to overanalyse it

Can I just go to the GP and say "DS needs a hearing test"?

There are a few red flags but it really isn't clear. In your shoes I'd ask your GP or health visitor to perform a screening test for ASD - they just ask you loads of questions. This isn't necessarily conclusive but is a first step in deciding whether to wait and see or go for a referral.

In the meantime lots of affectionate imaginative play and rough and tumble will work for your son whatever his dx.

fuzz - I would think that you can just say that to the GP (and insist if s/he doesn't immediately agree). They should refer you to the audiology dept at your local hospital. It won't hurt to at least rule this out.