Girls with mild aspergers? Can anyone talk to me about it?

[Aranea]

I am wondering whether dd (7) might have mild Aspergers, or whether she is just slightly quirky, and I'd really appreciate thoughts from anyone who knows about it.

Things that concern me:

• she cannot tell when people are joking. She loves 'jokes' and wordplay, but she absolutely cannot tell if someone is winding her up. She takes joking comments very seriously and literally.
• although she often does make eye contact, she also quite often avoids it so that it is hard to tell if she is listening. Apparently on the carpet at school she sometimes appears not to be engaged when she in fact is. It also happens if I'm talking about something that she is uncomfortable with - I am not sure if this is normal or not. She tends to look above my head when I'm explaining about something she's done wrong. Today she told me she was doing it because she was distracted by the lights behind me.
• she is very very distractible and can take an exceptionally long time to do simple tasks like dressing. However apparently she completes her work on time in class.
• she is poorly co-ordinated and flaps her hands when excited. Her co-ordination has been a cause for concern for a while, and she was under an OT for a while, but it is really improving now.
• she can be crashingly insensitive and rude without meaning to be, just because she hasn't thought about how things might appear to the other person.
• she doesn't seem socially 'fluent', if that makes any sense
• she can suddenly appear to sort of 'power down', becoming apparently exhausted, if she is overstimulated - eg we took her to a concert which she enjoyed until we took her to the front where it was louder and crowded with other children dancing. At that point she curled up and looked as though she was about to go to sleep.

On the other hand:

• she is highly imaginative and engages in imaginative play with her friends and her little sister
• her literacy skills are very advanced and she loves fiction
• she is very empathetic and responds very emotionally to films and books
• she isn't obsessive (too distractible!)
• she is very astute sometimes in her social observations
• she is sociable and caring

Sorry this is long but does anyone have any comments? Thank you!

Just skim reading - my son (9) hand flaps, and he's dyspraxic. Have you looked at that?

Dyspraxia is on the AS as well, and quite often a child has more than one of the 'disorders' (sorry cannot think of proper word now, tired)

Yes, I have wondered about dyspraxia. And I know that the two conditions are connected. The paed and OT didn't seem to want to call it dyspraxia, so I dunno....

I suppose I was wondering whether the things I'm concerned about sounded like AS issues?

Maybe because she isn't 'fully' dyspraxic? Ds1 is quite bad - he cannot hand-eye co-ordinate very well - cannot do buttons, zips, shoelaces, always walks into things, he hand flaps alot, when excited, mostly.

He is fairly sociable, but behind in school compared to his peers, and indeed his 7 year old brother. His handwriting is very childlike.

i'm sorry I've filled up your thread with this, and no help on Aspergers really, just i recognised the hand flapping.

www.help4aspergers.com/

Yes, you're probably right - she isn't too bad really. She can't jump off things well, can't ride a bike, is hopeless at throwing, kicking, catching, but it's not awful. She can do buttons etc and her handwriting is actually quite good. She loves drawing.

She is doing well in school, top group for literacy and second group for maths.

She sort of checks some boxes but not enough for diagnosis maybe?

Thanks Heatherhills, I'll look at that.

bump

She sounds very very much like my dd at that age, and I was thinking along the same lines as you are now.
In addition, my dd was displaying OCD symptoms and was suffering from nervous tics and compulsive hairpulling. She was also painfully shy and would not look at people.

She turned nine last month and on the whole is a lot 'better'. (have put better in brackets as she was not 'bad' or 'poorly' when she was seven)
The hand flapping has stopped. She is no longer avoiding eye contact (unless she is being told off, but that is normal, no?) and is socially a lot more fluent and is becoming more sensitive and caring. She no longer speaks as she sees but thinks beforehand and is on the whole considerate to other's feelings.
(She is, incidentally, also top group literacy, second group maths)
She still cannot catch a ball and badminton, tennis and hockey are skills which evade her. She can however ride a bike and is quite a good little horse rider.

She is still far too easily distracted and simple tasks such as getting dressed can take up to an hour depending on what catches her eye (but at school she sticks to tasks quite well)

I think she just needed time to 'grow up' as it were. At this point even though dd still has mild OCD and still has the odd nervous tic, I no longer think along the lines of mild aspergers or dyspraxia.

Perhaps it will be the same for your dd?

Thank you so much for posting, BehindLockNumberNine. That is very reassuring and very interesting. I feel so torn between thinking she is just immature in some ways, and wondering whether there is a real issue.

She's developed so much physically in the last couple of years, so maybe all the rest of it will sort itself out over time? I don't feel I really know what the full spectrum of normal development is for this age group - there's so much info about preschoolers, but we're kind of cut loose after that!

Hi Tough

She has not stopped but it has lessened to a large degree. She was at her worst age 5 when she pulled out the whole front half of her head within the space of a week and from then on until she was 7 she had a very very short hairstyle so it was harder for her to get hold of the hair. (luckily she is quite slight with a little pixie face so it really suited her) This seemed to break the habit to a certain extent.

She now has a chin length bob. She will occasionally pull strands out but is no longer leaving the bald patches she once did.

I understand it is harder with eyelashes.

My DS has Aspergers and behaves in similar ways. If you're concerned, contact your GP and ask for a referral for assessment. They will be able to assess her properly and either put your mind at rest or outline what the issues are so you can support her properly.

A lot of children with Aspergers can do fine in Primary School, but then really struggle in Seniors so its good to get these things diagnosed early. High school may seem a long way off, but its better to think about it now.

What kind of issues arise in secondary school? And what kind of support would a child get that would make a difference? (ie in what way is the diagnosis helpful?)

Your OP has described my 6yo DD too. I have wondered about AS for a long time tbh. She is a couple of years behind her peers in physical skills I'd say, and is v physically awkward, yet top of the class for literacy, top 5 in class for numeracy. Her empathy is very good though, and she is very loving, though hugs etc are v awkward for her (not physically uncomfortable I think, just unco-ordinated).

TBH aranea, I don't believe there is such a thing as mild Aspergers, in order to get a dx of aspergers or high functioning autism you child's difficulties are seriously effecting their daily life.

How does your Dd cope with changes in her routine. Can she cope with sensory stuff eg bright lights, loud noises, itchy clothing?

You say she has a good imagination, my Dd3 gives the impression of playing imaginativly[sp] but actually what she does is replays situations she has been in, usually at school. She plays repetetivly[sp].

Does your Dd like to watch or listen to the same things over and over again?

What is her Theory of Mind like, can she put herself into someone elses shoes? Does she expect you to know what she is thinking?

If you are worried why not go to your GP with your concerns, there is no way your Dd would be dx'ed with Aspergers unless she actually has it. It took us 3.5 years and much fighting to get Dd3 dx'ed .

The proffs are reluctant to label children atm, if you think your Dd will struggle i secondary you should start the process now.

you could re post this in the Special needs children section, there are loads of really knowledgable people over there and I am sure you will get good advice.

Good luck.

Thanks Ineedalife. None of it is seriously affecting her daily life, I'm glad to say, it just jars me a bit when I see how different she is in some ways to her peers.

She's fine with routine changes and pretty much OK with sensory stuff (though as I mentioned sometimes can get overwhelmed as at the concert).

She plays all kinds of imaginative games, pretending to be a historical character or a princess or whatever, and she writes great stories which are never realistic, always magical and fantastical.

Yes, she does like to watch the same films over again, and re-reads favourite books. But not to the exclusion of new ones.

She does sometimes expect me to know what she is thinking, but I think she's getting better about that. And she's not bad at putting herself in someone else's shoes when she can step back from a situation and analyse it. It's just that in the moment she is not good at reading situations and responding fast I think. She's better at thinking it through intellectually, which is a slower process than managing on instinct iyswim.

I don't know, I wonder whether there is much point in going to the GP. I don't want to cause upset and anxiety to her unnecessarily, especially as it isn't something that is causing her problems at the moment.

I don't know what kinds of problems might lie ahead.

In regards to hair pulling for one of the posters do research trichotillomania - an impulsive control disorder. My young cousin has been pulling out her hair since the age of 7, it started with a bald patch in the crown of her head and then around her hairline. Eventually she was pulling her eyelashes and even pubic hair when she started to develop them and too had short hair cuts to prevent. Many children do grow out of it especially those who develop it at a young age.

Thank you Poodle. I researched it extensively when dd first started doing it. A poster on here (misdee's sister, not sure if she is still on here) helped me out massively.
Also, my sister (now aged 38) suffers from trichotillomania, has done since she was in her mid-teens. So perhaps in dd's case it is also slightly genetic?
She is not doing it much at the moment but am fully expecting it to re-emerge with a vengeance when we hit teens...

Aranea

I am 33, and currently in the process of being assessed for aspergers myself. I don't know whether it would be helpful for me to give some points from my perspective, some of what you have said about your daughter is very similar to me (am happy to chat on board, or via message if you want).

Either way, I would look at the link above, and especially the content on the following pages (both on the site)
Female aspie traits
Aspie traits

Also for the dyspraxia, look at dyspraxia foundation website

GHE

AGlass, thank you, I'd love to discuss further with you - I'll pm you. Some of those traits listed in the table apply to her, some don't.

My Dd3 is becoming better at learning how to behave in different situations.

The Speech and Language Therapist who assessed her said that because she is bright she is able to learn certain responses. It doesn't come naturally to her but she can appear not to struggle because either we have taught her how to behave [a long process] or she has learnt by watching others.

She is also able to learn to understand more complex language skills, she has a great memory which helps her and usually when something has been explained to her she will remember it. For example she takes Idioms very literally and when the SALT asked her what does "Its raining cats and dogs mean" she looked out of the window and laughed but said I don't know.
The SALT explained it to her and the next time she asked her she said "Oooh don't tell me I know this one".

I think it would be worth keeping a close eye on your Dd, girls are so easily missed because they work so hard at fitting in.

Our concerns for Dd3 have been escalating lately because she is getting nearer to secondary, [there is an interesting thread running in the special nneds children section at the moment about older children with Aspergers you might like to read.] Her lovely school are in the process of trying to improve her social skills, mainly the way that she speaks to people.

Hope some of that helps, good luck .