struggling with my 4yo, feeling like a failure.

[JjandtheBean]

Sorry this will be long I just want as much info down as possible so hopefully someone can see what I'm doing so wrong.

I have a 4.5yr old ds, he's in full time reception since september.

He's doing very well in school, very happy, acheiving more than we dreamed (he was prem) gets glowing reports for kindness and being helpful, very pleasant and no problems there.

The problems start the minute we leave the school gates, mainly starts because he doesn't want to walk home, it takes under 5 minutes and we can see the house... I'll happily pop him on my shoulders if he wants but that will not do in his opinion.

He'll then create again at home when he's not allowed free rein on the cupboards, he's given fruit/veg/crackers snack when we get in and a sweet from his tin if he's been pleasant or got a sticker/certificate (they have loose sweets so could be one smartie, foam banana iyswim) dinner is started or ready to be finished so we can eat at 4.30.

He has a very good varied healthy diet, tonight was home made lasagne, piece of garlic bread and salad, then a yogurt and fruit.

Dinner often causes another tantrum, over where he sits, what plate/cup/cutlery. Even if I ask him to come and get which ones he wants out ready and he often lays the table, something is still wrong.

Tidying up is greeted with ignoring us then often throwing things and getting right into myself or dps face and screaming and shouting.

He is given one warning, we first ask him to calm down try and get him to talk to us, then he's warned if he doesn't stop he will be on the stairs, then he's placed on the bottom step, this never seems to work he usually spends 15-30mins screaching screaming kicking and banging until he caves and does his 4minutes. He's ripped the stair gate off the wall this week :(

We have a reward chart in place and he earns 10p per tick, for helping, being kind and polite, bedtimes without fuss and a few other things, we've managed to crack bedtime and have a much easier time there (previously he'd flipped if we went downstairs) now we have a 30min of no tv just books/jigsaws before bed, upstairs for pjs and a story, and he sleeps 6.15-30pm until 7-8am.

So he'd earnt £1.50, we asked what he'd like to do, spend save etc, he asked to go out so we found the movies for juniors nearest to us, films for £1 and we did that and he brought popcorn --in asda-- to take in, myself and dp thought this is great, he's seen the benefit of his good behaviour and maybe its going to make implementing the reward scheme easier. Within minutes of the film started he had a melt down, I don't even know why, he was quite but extremely angry with me stopping him walking off (we've been to the cinema before he knows to ask for a wee or a quick walk outside) we managed to quickly calm him stating we'd leave. Enjoyed the rest of the film and went to our local forest/park with some family. Here he decided he wanted chocolate and againg went balistic. Dp ended up back at the car with him.

I've tried speaking to him, were consistent with discipline/rewards. He was a wonderful little boy, he still is, just seems a little lost. I miss him desperatly when he's in school and try my hardest to make our time together nice but he's never happy, I'm always in the wrong with him it seems.

Any advice?

I meant he was quiet but extremely angry.

Don't know if it helps but I have DS exactly same age and stage - but my expectations of his behaviour are lower than yours, result, possibly, I am less stressed when he doesn't match up. I don't do reward charts etc at home (gets enough of that at school), & bribe only when desperate (quite often admittedly.) I don't insist he eats at table or do anything in particular so long as he's not violently antisocial, though TV is restricted of course - it's about my only rule at home. By most people's standards, I probably tolerate a lot; but when he's impossible (now & again) I shut him out on the landing for a minute or two, till he's ready to behave. He doesn't sleep until 8 or later (up at 7-7.30) but can do what he likes all evening apart from the little bit of homework/reading he gets. (He decides when to do it). Of course as it's often just me and him (no other kids) I can see in some ways I have it easy; but every trip we do, or after-school activity, is done with his full understanding & consent. eg We've never been to the cinema, because so far he thinks he doesn't like it. Similarly food - he gets (within parameters of course) to choose what he has. I simply find this tactic (always consult him before ANYTHING) the best way to avoid meltdowns . . . which happen, but no more frequently than I expect, & almost always when he is v tired . . . I think assuming your child is exactly same age as mine we have to remember they are keeping pace at school with kids up to a year older socially and academically, which must be quite a strain at this age. So perhaps a certain regression in behaviour when they get home is to be expected. Don't know if any of this is relevant to your situation but it seemed worth stating. Best of luck.

He sounds like a lovely little boy. Do you think it's possible to expect too much, especially of someone so small who is possibly tired after school and overwhelmed by big experiences like the cinema? Many children his age are still at nursery and having quite simple lives, for example my DD would hate the cinema and wouldn't really get on with the reward structures you describe. She has regular tantrums too and I have grown to expect them- small people, big feelings and all that. Or you could also try repeating the MN mantra of "this too will pass..."
I'm interested that you "miss him desperately" when he is at school, and that you feel like a failure even when it is obvious you have a little one who eats well, sleeps, doing well at school - things yo be proud of! How are you getting on? I mean that in a nice way, not to be intrusive...

I don't know whether it helps JJ, but my DS1 was a bit of a handful for a few months after starting school. I felt like the school had taken away my good little boy and given me back a little horror. He is a summer born boy and just couldn't cope at first. After a while I spoke to the teachers and I used to get him early or for a half day a Friday. The teacher agreed that if he was tired he wouldn't be learning anything anyway. I know one little boy in DS's class who used to have an afternoon nap in a corner of the classroom.

This is about survival now and waiting for things to become easier. You are obviously putting in the hard work, and I think you have been through some difficult family times recently, which he will have picked up on. Kids of this ages are perverse. They feel things are/have been tough and act up instead of being good. Choose the path of least resistance, praise the good and ignore the bad. Things will get better OP, especially with all the love and hard work you put into your family.

My youngest is same age, his behaviour sounds quite similar to be honest. We have alot of stamping feet if he cant get what he wants, banging his fists on things. I always think its cause he has gone from baby of the family who everyone would jump through hoops for to being a little boy who has to tow the line like everyone else now hes at school and bigger. Also when they are little there are so many rules at school i think hometime should be more chilled out and relaxed. As long as he is not being a complete sod i dont worry too much. I also hope its adusting to school phase also, i seem to remember the challenge with my other boys and they are both lovely boys now :)

Don't know if it helps but we had a tricky few months at about the same age.

DS is now 5.3 and (generally) a delight. At 4.5 he was great at school (nursery for him as he's October birthday- in Reception like your boy now) but really tricky at home. I think at that age he used up all his "doing what you're told" energy at school and then was a real tricky customer at home or as you say on the walk home.

Only advice I have is be strong and pick your battles. My 3 year old reacts in the same way when she has been at nursery and is tired- it seems to be a control thing, perhaps they are on best behaviour at school/nursery, but this takes a certain effort that then they react against once they are home and want their control back!

I think you do need to set firm boundaries but perhaps you can ignore the milder stuff

Personally I would quit the reward chart, take things in your stride with soft rewards (smiles/cuddles/praise) for good behaviour and give him space to be grumpy- funny concept but I think we are all allowed to be grumpy sometimes .

I agree with other posters that behaving well all day at school is a bit of a strain at this age, and that is why they can be a PITA at home. But you'd rather it was like that than the other way round, wouldn't you? Don't be too hard on him!

Hi there, am experiencing a very grumpy, stroppy, opinionated school starter too.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, as you sound lovely, but my mind started to boggle at all the rewards, punishments and disciplines.

We are just taking things day by day - its exhausting isn't it - but I have older children and know that given time, probably by the summer, they should be in the swing of school. I think for my daughter its a mixture of anxiety, hunger, tiredness, testing boundaries and confusion.

Why the rewards scheme? It sounds like a complicated regime. He probably gets enough of that at school. He should be able to relax at home. I think you need to lower your expectations.

My ds is 4yrs 2.5mo and behaves similar to yours. He is still at nursery as was born oct.

We don't give him that many responsibilities but are strict on being nice and not fighting/shouting (him and ds2 fight a bit). He also gets warnings then goes in the hall if still misbehaving.

I would guess that as he has started school it is a bit of an adjustment for him. Sometimes when things change they test the boundaries a bit. They want to know things at home are still the same and so they kind of test you iyswim.

When ds is like this we just remain consistent and ride it out. I think it gives them a sense of security to know exactly what is expected of them and to know the 'rules' are still the same.

As with everything it is a phase and it will pass, you're doing all the right things. I'm sure he'll settle down soon

Thanks for all the replies, sorry I took so long to get back dp broke down in the back and beyond last night with no phone credit so I had to sort that out.

I have to say its a huge relief I'm not alone that makes me feel far more relaxed that its normal iyswim.

We also have a 3yo dd so not just ds at home, I miss him a lot because his toddlerhood seemed to disapear into the general chaos of a bad 2yrs then suddenly he is in school and I have dd at home and can see exactly what I missed out on with him.

Don't get me wrong I am by no means strict, he pushes us to the very edge, really daft things like he came into the kitchen I asked him to wait near the 'gap' (open plan kitchen dinning room he can stand 1-2ft away from me and talk without being near the hob) as I had 3 pans on the hobs and I'd rather they stayed away from it, never been an issue before usually I just say ds its hot out here and he goes and stands away, or sits on a chair and we talk this time however he pushed the pan and stomped off, I explained how dangerous it was and left it at that. We only use the warning/naughty step when he's being aggressive or damaging things or at worst being a danger to himself or someone else.

I'm going to try and relax I'm just very anxious at not letting things get out of hand as there's two young boys in our family who were lovely children and are now monsters at 7 and 11.

And I know it sounds stupid but having it pointed out that he's good at school, bed and mealtimes makes the screaming tantrums seem small.

I'm not going to end the reward charts as we see improvement using that, and he and dd really enjoy saving up there pennies but I will not be doing the cinema again, despite enjoying it in the past he obviously needs to be busy when not in school not sat still being quiet. But I'm going to change the naughty step technique not entirely sure what to do instead but I'll be thinking on it and not using it again as it does result in a HUGE meltdown.

He is very eager to please so maybe ignore negative praise the positive will work, with just having stern words when its something serious.

By all means carry on the rewards to get things back on track, but I hope you can stop them soon as it's much nicer just to have a loving relationship where good behaviour is rewarded by smiles and a general good vibe in the house. Well, that's what I found. I resorted to the reward chart when DS went through the bad patch I mentioned, but in hind sight I'm not sure it helped and it was so much nicer when we got rid of it. You must do what works for you though .