Verbally Agressive Behaviour in DD (9)

[loopydoo]

Hello - dd is 9 but is really becoming agressive in her retorts to me and her dad. She is what I imagine a tricky teen to act like; swearing, refusing to tidy her bedroom, demanding sweets and treats when she knows she's not allowed etc. She calls me an idiot and fat pig etc.

We have brought her up in a very similar and fair way to how we were both raised but it doesn't seem to work.

She is so desperate to have new toys/clothes/riding lessons etc but when I ask her to do something for me or be kind to her brother, it's a constant battle.

She sometimes gets physical (she kicked me in the shin yesterday in front of people at the beach when I wouldn't let her spend money on sweets) and talks to me as though I'm a piece of poo on her shoe.

She regularly says she would like to live in a children's home (Tracey Beaker style) and says she hates school (even though she is very bright).

We have moved recently but actually back to an area she knows and where she has 7 or 8 good friends.

She's fussy about food, although I believe it's more a power thing than actually disliking it.

When she has a 'meltdown' I tend to try and let her calm down in her room and then try to talk to her and explain why it's not acceptable (supernanny style). She seems to take it in but then it happends again a few days later.

She has real trouble sleeping and is still awake now at almost half eleven. Even if she just lies there, she can't seem to sleep.

Any one got any ideas of how to tackle her?

How much attention do you give her when she is not being a madam?

How do you normally talk to her and with your husband?

What did you do when she kicked you?

We give her plenty of attention Lueji.

We have moved recently and I know she is not happy about it.
Me and DH speak to each other nicely; DH does have a temper and speaks horribly to me sometimes but only every now and again and it's usually when I ask him to slow down when driving .

When she kicked me, I told her that unless she started behaving, I would seriously consider postponing her getting a hamster for her birthday.

I see where you're going with asking me how I (and DH) behave but we are just a nice middle class family with good values and wish to bring our children up in a loving environment.

We were chatting about her last night actually; saying that we didn't understand why she behaved in this way when we'd brought her up using positive parenting techniques - really no different than other parents we know.

That's why I'm worried it's more than that- vaccines/e numbers etc?

loopydoo - I don't have any answers I'm afraid, but I have a DD aged 9 just the same. Her older sister (11) is fine ie within the bounds of 'normal', bit perfect. DD2 has always been emotionally volatile, from a young baby. She finds the world a frustrating place, and always wants to be the best, the first, to be noticed, and hates to make mistakes, to lose etc. I have NO idea where this is from - it is just her. Her sister is totally non-competitive. Both are bright, do very well at school, sports etc, but DD2 is constantly pushing everything, all the time...
I do tend to give DD2 more one-on-one time than dd1, as our whole family benefits from this, and it does help her be calmer if she has just me to talk to and chew things over, but at the same time, we have to ensure that DD2's moods are not given priority. We regularly tell her that she just has to accept things as they are, that she is a child, not in control of everything, and that she needs to chill out!
I just hope that as she gets older, she will gain more perspective and things will be easier. However, as she is like a teenager a lot and has been forever, I am dreading when the hormones kick in too!
I have considered a referral (for counselling or something) but I suspect that she would not be a priority, and in a way, I don't want to 'pathologise' her, and give her something else to get stressy about lol!

I have had a DD like that, OP, sympathies.
I can't say what I did that seems to have fixed it because it will kick off a huge debate; I will just say that sometimes you have to stretch pretty wide in your parental willingness to experiment. And it took a big shock to get DD to realise how vile she was being & how unacceptable that was.

lljkk - can you PM me with what you did?
I have to say that we have 'think outside the box' when dealing with DD, as when she is in one of her moods, it takes a lot to get through to her..
I actually consider myself to be a good parent, and I know that sometimes it isn't the parenting, it is the child.

For difficult children, over-disciplining might do harm. I found a study somewhere on internet, that if you nag a child all the time, it could even cause ODD (oppositional defiant disorder) with serious consequences. The best recommended techniques are lots or praise and rewards in order to establish good habits and ignore non essential misbehaviour - don't give her "negative" attention. I only have 3.9yo, but have experienced lots of pushing boundaries (nowadays mainly verbally) and mood swings, and have read lots of books about it.

Thanks everyone - some really useful advice/support.

I think she is a very deep child and she certainly worries about lots of things I wouldn't expect a child of 9 to worry about. I want her to just be a child and not rush into wanting to grow up too soon.

I will read up about ODD confusedperson.
She's so on the ball though that when I try just speaking to her nicely when she is having a strop, she'll reply " I know what you're doing by trying to talk to me nicely, and I'm not having any of it".

She doesn't like playing outside/going for walks to the beach/woods etc. She wants her friends to play a lot but she just wants to play on the pc or watch tv. I worry she's bored and want to find things to stimulate her mind a bit more yet also worry about her sleeping - she's awake most nights when we go to bed at 11/11:30.

My DS would only play on the PC or TV or wii if I let him, although he also is keen on cycling and going out.
However, he often needs a push to do something else in the home.
We sometimes play checkers or chess or some other game.

I don't believe in overdisciplining either but I do enforce rules. I am not particularly nice if DS has a strop. That is the time to be assertive and tell your DD in no uncertain terms that if she hits you again, a privilege will be taken (never mind seriously considering postponing giving her a birthday present - that's not a real threat and personally, I think Christmas and birthday presents should not be bargaining tools) or she'll get time out or something more immediate. DS is usually sent to his room to think about what he has done. Then, it's time for the nice talk, not during the strop.
Once, when making him sit on the floor at a supermarket cash desk for hitting me didn't work, I told him that he would have to go knees on the floor to the car if he didn't stop. He did stop and his punishment was over soon.

All children try it out, but in most cases, it depends on our response whether they continue or not.

Believe me, I am a very playful and cuddly mother, even tolerant of many things, but I don't take abuse. :)

I would agree that she needs her sleep. Perhaps you need to enforce silence and dark by a suitable early time.

I am curious about the positive parenting techniques. Are you ever critical of her? Do you give her specific praise, or just generic?
She is getting older and may need to be listened to more. It is a fine balance between treating our growing children as the more mature little people they are becoming and enforcing limits and boundaries. Trial and error, I'm afraid. :)

Thank you Lueji.
I know what you mean and I do generally give her a warning about something do-able, however, we were at the beach, in a shelter on the sea front in front of about 8 people so the postponing the present thing was the 1st thing that came to mind. She's going to get a hamster and the day we were going to buy it was a certain day so saying I would postpone that didn't mean for good; just until another day if she couldn't be good. (bear in mind she had already told me if I didn't let her have sweets, she'd shout out loud that I wasn't her mother and that I'd kidnapped her!).

By positive parenting, I mean simply that we try and reward good behaviour and not focus on the negative stuff she says/does. We try to give her firm encouragement to do the right thing and try to show her how being nice to people is important etc.

The sleep thing is a constant battle and she has never slept well; she's afraid of the dark and insists she sleep with at least 2 lights on, often 3. We have moved to a really big house with lots of rooms and have moved away from the smaller house which was much more cosy. Saying that, she's always wanted to sleep with the light on. She has just come down now (midnight) to get a drink and is wide awake! I tell her to shut her eyes and she'll drift off but she doesn't seem to.

She goes up about half 7 - 8 and just lies there trying to sleep.

Oh and every day, as soon as she gets in from school, we get her a snack and I ask her all about her day. she's always willing to tell me how well she has done or if someone has been mean etc.

our ds is only 7 but has been a handful since very little and the personalities of the children in this thread is him to a tee. We have the added fun that he has Aspergers so it can be like speaking Russian to someone who only speaks Chinese at times.
Things that really, really help are deciding what really matters, what our bottom line is so number one is treating people with respect in our house.
We have zero tolerance for violence, he gets no warnings, and no second chances if he hurts someone. For the beach situation he would have been packed into the car and if not affecting other siblings day out would have been driven straight home and straight to his bedroom. If it did affect other people ot leave then he would be sat in the car until others had had their fun and ready to go.

I know it may sound extreme and I may get jumped on but for ds he needs to know without a shadow of a doubt that violence is not tolerated at all and that he is the only one that will wear the consequence so I will not cancel out everyone's fun because of his actions.

We have also had sleep issues and like your daughter he is often up late. DS finds it very difficult to shut down at night, he is unable to write so we have started to get him to record his thoughts on his tape deck. We are hoping this will have the effect of helping him to process them and therefore wind down. Other things which do help enormously are a religious bedtime and get up time so that it becomes part of his body clock and have a very particular bedtime routine so no tv or screen time for at least an hour before bed. Stories with dh and me and then recording his thoughts. He then needs to lie in bed and can listen to audio stories. I try to encourage him to close his eyes and see the story in his head. This does help but at times life means he does go to bed later or in a different place etc and this change in routine can have repercussions for weeks in terms of his ability to settle at night.