After School Blues

[Inkpen]

This one could come under a variety of headings really! Siblings, sleep, school? Whatever - any suggestions gratefully received.
Problem: I have two children, a boy of 4 y 8 mo who started school in September and a girl of 2 y 2 mo. When ds returns from school, he is (not surprisingly) exhausted, hungry, demanding etc. Dd, by contrast, is reluctant to relinquish either mummy or toys that she has had all day. She's keen to see him, but not for him to interfere while he really wants solitude after a day of other kids and me to focus full-time on him. If dd has slept, she's perky while he's exhausted; if she hasn't, she's as exhausted and ratty as he. Neither much good! Now Libby Purves has dealt briefly with this in her second How Not to book, and pinpoints the problem, but what I need is some seriously practical suggestions for managing all this.
How do you all run that after-school time? When do you eat? If they're starving at 3.30, what and when do you feed them that doesn't spoil dinner? They really need separate activities because they're incapable of sharing at that time of day, but how do you keep them apart when they both want you there full-time, full-on? How do you make supper when you're barely able to leave the room without war breaking out?
Problems compounded because ds never sleeps at night(bedtime 8-8.30, drop off time 9.30-10pm) so permanently exhausted; and dd supposedly settling in at nursery for 3 mornings(unsuccessful so far) so extra extra clingy.
Life at the moment is fine till 3.30 and then it's basically several hours of screaming, hysteria, tantrums, me literally pulling them apart from physcial fights ... (you wouldn't believe the punch up we've had today over a Noddy puzzle!) ... endless trauma till bedtime. Dh not home till 6.30 pm or later so it's all down to me and I'm not just at the end of my tether - I'm well beyond it. The tension by suppertime is so bad I often can't even eat.
Any ideas please?

Oh Inkpen, Bless you. You've just described a scenario that goes on in thousands of households all over the UK at 3.30PM and one myself that I am only too familiar with. My ds is just 5, dd is 3 and 6 mths and other ds is 18 mths. What can I say, the eldest 2 fight like cat & dog over the stupidist things and I'm beginning to wonder if they'll ever see eye-to-eye over anything. No, actually tell a lie, they do get on well when being extremely silly (ie. tearing about the house, jumping on beds, wrapping themselves in curtains - need I go on!) I've found the best solution is just to keep them apart as much as possible for my own sanity if nothing else. I do their tea early, before 5pm if poss, because my dh gets in about the same time as yours, so we eat together later, and then try to have them all in bed no later than 7.30. I wish that I had a magic solution for you, I don't as I would have done it a long time ago with my little darlings. I find a quick glass of wine around tea time helps the commotion wash over me a bit better. I've come to the conclusion that brothers and sisters have a love/hate relationship and there is not alot you can do about it apart from act as referee! I hope I haven't made you feel any worse, atleast you know that you're most definitely not alone on this one. Good luck!

Inkpen, a friend gave me some advice to (a) expect drama, and (b) to try and give them vegging time. Many children are very well behaved all day at school, so it is not surprising they kind of explode when they get home. Don't expect too much. I limit their TV during the day a lot - almost completely, but 'after-school', he just seems to need to switch off, and sit in front of the screen for 20 mins or so.

I do expect them to go a bit loopy at 3.30, and try not to have friends round at that time of day, because at the moment that doesn't work for us. They are just too tired.

My boys are 2 yr 6 mo, and 4 yr 4 mo, so not all that different from yours, but the oldest only does half days at the moment. This is what works for us:
When we get home they have a drink and a small snack in front of Tweenies.
4 pm they go outside in the garden, unless it is very wet. (I'm dreading winter)
If they start scrapping, then I separate them.

Hmm ... just read your bit about bedtimes - I don't know how you cope! I feel pretty drained by the post-school session, but both mine are in bed asleep by 6 pm.

As far as food is concerned - my two are too tired by teatime to eat a proper meal, and I can't guarantee to keep the peace long enough for me to cook, so we have a main meal at lunchtime. At 3.30 they have something small, but carbohydrate - a good boost to energy levels, just to keep them going. Something like a muffin, or a bagel, some toast, or a banana. Then they have sandwiches for tea between 4.30 and 5, depending on how tired they are.

Sorry I've gone on a bit. Is any of this helpful? I hope so.

Sometimes my two like to do something creative at that time of day - painting or sticking. If they're in the mood.

Can you keep something which your dd loves to play with, special for her to play with at that time of day, that she doesn't get any other time, to try and keep her away from her brother?

It may be partly just age of the younger one - the older they get, the better at communicating verbally, the less they will fight ...?

Oh it is so nice to hear that others have the same problem. My 4 year old ds has just started school too, and I'm just finding it difficult to adjust to the change from when he was at nursery, when I would just pick both children up at 6 and at home get them straight into the milk/ bath/ story/ bed routine. The three days a week I work, he gets picked up by different friends' mums/ nannies and I know they usually resort to videos, so I am reluctant to do the same (bearing in mind then that I only have to work out what to do with both children on two days a week). I usually go for a piece of fruit to keep both children happy until supper and we try and do things like play board games, puzzles, also drawing stuff, which he loves. It is difficult to know how to strike the balance - sometimes he has had to do so much sitting still at school, that he just needs to release some energy, other times he is so knackered from school that he just wants to flop. I wonder if it gets easier as they get older because they get less tired or have homework? Who has got older children who could give advice?

Glad to read this thread. I am finding the after school bit really hard. My older dd is 4 and 10 months and the younger 2.5. The younger one rarely sleeps during the afternoon so is generally really tired by 5 pm. The older one is very grumpy when I pick her up and has had big tantrums on the way home from school. She is usually starving, so I need to bring various snacks with me or else getting home is a nightmare. She always complains that I have brought the wrong snack and moans on the way home. I have now get her to agree in the morning what she wants me to bring, and have started a star chart if she can greet me with a smiley face when I collect her. This has had limited effect so far. I am just hoping that as she adjusts more to school, the going home time will become less stresful for us all. I also avoid inviting friends home after school as she is too tired. . I

Totally agree with you about not seeing friends after school. We just had to leave a friend's very abrubtly after her dd who was obviously tired and grouchy slapped my dd across the face because she wasn't getting her own way over something and had been told off by her dad. She was completely unprovoked by my dd. I reckon it's enough to keep my own happy, w'out putting up with other people's paddies! I recommend milkshakes, fruit and a good old colouring session to keep them sane. Having said that, I'm usually still at work leaving dh to cope anyway!

Thanks so much for the suggestions. Relieved to know I'm not the only one - sometimes you hear so much about other children's 'after school activities' (ballet, gym, drama ...) that you feel yours are the only kids in the world who can't cope (and you the only mother)! From the sounds of it, maybe I'm being too ambitious about evening meals - ds has just been demanding bread and marmite the last two nights anyway. Also thrilled to hear that someone else's children run round jumping on beds and wrapping themselves in curtains together. Do they learn these tricks at some secret baby school??
All other ideas gratefully received.
BTW, it's nearly 10pm and ds is still wide awake ... Where's that glass of wine?

Here, here, to that glass of wine, Inkpen. I had mine post-school yesterday and felt alot better for it! Don't expect too much of yourself or the kids or you will end up a stressed psycho-mother (can you tell I'm talking from experience!) Don't worry about the afterschool clubs, mine don't do anything either, there's plenty of time for that when they are more used to the demands of school as they get older. I also had my eldest awake late last night 'supposedly' unable to sleep, I think that just get themselved 'hyped' up sometimes. Give them an early snacky-type tea if that's what they want, mine don't always get a cooked tea, as sometimes they're too tired to eat a big tea and sometimes they're too tired to wait while I cook it. As for the fighting and silliness, well that's become a way of life in our house!

I struggled through the first year of school with my dd (she was 4yrs 2weeks) when she started full time.
Also have 2year old girl who like your little one inkpen didn't want to share toys/attention either.
We now have it down to a fine art but it took me a year to figure out what worked best for us, don't know if these will work in your house but here goes;

Home from school, have drink and snack (in lounge sitting on floor) I sit with them for an hour. We play or watch telly or read storys whatever they feel like doing. The point is they have my full undivided attention for that time (even if i am looking at my watch willing the time to go quicker !!)

Then i leave them to prepare dinner which i try to make sure they have by five o'clock. (which sometimes means i have to start preparation earlier during the day, depending what we are having)

After dinner we go up for a bath no mucking around just keep them moving !! Bathtime is relaxed and takes around half an hour.
After that i again sit down with them reading, playing whatever they feel like doing for a while.
Then they watch t.v. together while i tidy up the dinner and always treat myself to a glass of wine. (very important part of the process!)

Around 6.30 2 year old goes up for her bedtime story. Then around 7.oopm 5 year old goes up for her bedtime story. At 7.30 I can be found finishing off the wine ! Dh walks in at 7.30 and we start our dinner.

Reading this through it all sounds a bit regimented, obviously what i've written is my kind of game plan. There are days when it doesn't work out how i intended it to, but on the whole we seem to have found a little routine that works for us. Hope some of the ideas sound feasible let us know how you get on. Good luck.

Just a message to tireless - I admire you so much for playing for an hour when you hate it. I have difficulty for ten minutes, I'm ashamed to say sometimes I don't even manage that in a day. There is for me a deep seated reason why my heart sinks when I hear those three little words "play with me" You're in luck I'm not going to burden you with it, but I found that after doing some art therapy I was sometimes able to play with my children happily. Making marks on paper with different types of media was all I did . It doesn't take a freudian analyst to see that I needed to play before I could let them.

Another point is that there are some things I do like doing - and some, like playing with Bob the Builder toys that just fill me with dread.

I read your comments elsewhere about feeling guilty that you haven't got the same bond with your son that others seem to have. I think that it's inevitable that some people are skilled at different areas of social interaction - and being with children is one of those areas. Historically, when a lot of women shared living spaces, some would have been better with small children, some with older children, and some not involved in childcare at all. So its unreasonable to assume that we should all be good at and love dealing with babies.

The update so far. Have tried to institute early snack-type meals/ready meals etc. Last night went quite well, both in bed earlier; ds even asleep by 9pm. Tonight: both refused to eat said ready meal, spat it out on floor/table/plate (so squeamish me can't even finish it up!) and are now rampaging round the house, hyper and half-dressed (2 y/old not potty trained either - oh dear) while I, steaming with frustration, sit here with my head metaphorically in the sand in despair. We've had about six screaming tantrums since 3.30 (a roughly equal split between each child) and I think it's time for that glass of wine ...
I think, BTW, Louisa, that you're right about dealing with the different stages of childhood. I actually love the snuggly baby stage whereas I know a friend who can't wait for baby years to go but is going to be a real whizz at the teenage years!
Tireless, I think your routine sounds excellent. I'll try again tomorrow ...

Inkpen - It sounds like you've just described my house!
Don't despair, you have your good days and you have your bad days. Sometimes your plans work, sometimes they don't, and you end up with the little darlings running riot around your house refusing to eat their tea (even when you know it's something which they like!). That's the wonderful(?) thing about young kids, you just don't know how they're going to behave. Hang in there and make sure you've got that glass of wine handy!

Just to say much the same except it really will get better when they grow a bit and have really settled into their new routines. Forget an evening meal - its so disheartening to just throw it away. Else do something whilst they play at the kitchen table so you can carry on talking to them. They do need time to unwind and to 'chill out'. And what wrong to sit with the kids for 20 mins and watch TV ALL together (mummy's cup of tea time). Don't just dump them, make it a family cuddle time. Turn the tv off and talk about what you've just watched and what they did today. Then find different activities in different rooms and e prepared to run backwards and forwards when called. It's very tough now, we had arguements which ended up in tears and bite marks and me screaming at them, but in a few months it will become so much easier. Remember for both the little ones they will have had a tiring day with lots of new things to take in/learn. But it will get easier for you. I went thro all this when my eldest started school and now she's 7 and my twins have just started full time. I should say for the last 3 years we haven't had curtains in the lounge as I never found the time to hang them up again. And they still play bouncy castles with all the duvets and pillows. But I'm lucky in that I can normally get them to bed for 7:15 and then do the tidying up. And I do get some time to myself to rabbit away on mumsnet !!!