Sleeping

[NeilRo]

Hi there,

My wife and I have a four week old daughter, our first.

She's not a bad baby at all and I realise there are going to be many issues surrounding sleep, I guess we are just looking to not get into bad habits.

Some background, my wife is breastfeeding on demand (something she and our baby have really taken to, it's amazing to watch and she them bond and how content my daughter is and how my wife is actually providing everything she needs). We dont use or intend to use a dummy. My wife has never been great with no sleep (she says so herself) and I am due to go back to work on January 9th after some time off at Christmas and I'm concerned for my wife being up all night.

Basically our current methods for getting her to sleep is feeding, hugging, rocking/swaying/dancing for 10-20 minutes then putting her down.

This used to work for a while and she'd sleep for 2-4 hours then get up to feed.

Every so often she wouldn't settle and in the interests of my wife getting some sleep, I'd take our daughter and lay her on my chest while I watched TV or sat with the laptop. This put her to sleep and if I was watching a film or absorbed in what I was doing I'd leave her there for anything up to 5 hours and she slept and slept and so did my wife.

Recently, that is, the last two/three nights she is becoming more and more unsettled in her moses basket. We'll go through the above routine of hugging and rocking then put her down when it seems that she is asleep and either her eyes will open the minute her head touches the matress or she will wake up within minutes screaming and not willing to settle when patted or soothed and needing to be picked up and rocked again to sleep then the cycle continues.

I have resigned myself (tonight at least) to having her on my chest (where she is now) but that cant go on....

We thought it might be wind as we weren't effectively winding her (we bought Infacol recently and are trying that along with better technique). She is also bring up milk more than she used to in the first couple of weeks (that only started a week ago.

We are given so much advice that its hard. My wife's mum is hard core and says leave her to scream it out, she'll soon get used to not getting picked up and getting to sleep herself. My mum is the opposit saying get her a dummy, hug her, do what you need to do.

I guess my questions are;

-have I already instilled a bad habit with the chest sleeping and is this the reason for what's happening?
-how do I get her out of the habit?
-is this a common problem and do you have any tips?
-should we just leave her to cry it out (bearing in mind we have tried this and she cries so hard she is sick and/or poos herself)
-I've read about acid reflux in babies, could it be that?

• is this the kind of thing to phone the midwives about or should we "just get on with it?"

-any other observations?

Any help/thoughts/advice would be much appreciated.

All I want is for my wife and daughter to be happy.

Thanks,

Neil

Number 1 - do not worry! I got myself into SUCH a tizzy worrying about instilling bad habits etc etc. While I definitely think it is important to try and sort things out at this early stage it really is about survival (!) having a tiny baby is really hard! You will be wanting to sort out a routine later on but please don't panic about it now.

'Crying it out' is pretty unpopular on mumsnet but I do think sometimes it is necessary. But there is a big difference between letting a baby cry a bit and letting them get into a frenzy so that they are sick. I personally do let my DS cry but never to the point of hysteria (there is a big difference). I think it will probably upset you and your wife a lot to do this and so wouldn't recommend largely just for your own sanity.

How much milk is she bringing up? It is almost definitely nothing to worry about unless it really is all the time and is projectile.

There is no harm in talking about it with your midwife or health visitor (although they will almost definitely say it's nothing) if you feel worried.

This is most likely just a normal change, when she was smaller she was so unaware of the world. Now she is getting a bit more aware it may just be she is starting to realise more that she is being put in bed on her own and doesn't fancy the idea. When they are proper newborns they often just fall in and out of sleep no matter what the circumstances.

How does she sleep in the day? It could well be overtiredness. When my DS gets overtired when he eventually gets to sleep (after much effort) he will wake again after ten minutes.

You will start to get to know what her different cries mean and be able to tell whether it is a sore tummy etc. If it is a sore tummy she will probably go very stiff (that's what my DS and others I know do any way but I'm not an expert).

Is your wife breast feeding? It is often hard to know about hunger with breast feeding as you never now exactly how much your child is eating. Again you will start to be able to tell which cries mean she is hungry.

You can overcome this! My DS was very similar and after much effort in various aspects he is going down to sleep on his own and sleeps really well. It really is worth establishing a good bedtime routine (bath, cuddle, low lights, breast feed etc). I would put him down to sleep in his moses basket and keep my hand on him and rock the basket. He would cry for about twenty minutes (but never screaming hysterically - when he did this I would pick him up) and then fall asleep. I'm not sure whether having a hand on him made any difference but it made me feel better that I wasn't leaving him completely alone. It does take a huge amount of effort and consistency but it did work in the end. However, you do need to work out whether there she is crying for any reason (reflux etc) before you do this of course.

Most importantly at this early stage do not worry you are being a wonderful father and husband to care so much.

What really worked for us when swaddling. My daughter used to sleep really well when wrapped in a swaddle as I think she still felt safe and secure.

Otherwise it sounds like you are both doing a fab job!! I would agree that establishing a bedtime routine would be a good idea at this stage (bath,feed,swaddle,cuddle,put in Moses basket) around the same time every night. If she cries I wouldn't personally leave her. I used to pick my DD up and gently rock her or cuddle her, not until she was asleep but just until she stopped crying, then put her back down again!

Congratulations!! The first weeks are hard but they go so fast!

Definitely second that about the swaddling, although it had stopped working for my DS by this age (but was amazing for the first few weeks). I find white noise works really well.

Also second the 'pick up/put down' Timeoutofmind mentions can often be v effective (but does take a lot of hard work and persistence - don't expect it to work after one pick up).

What is your bedtime routine at the moment?

When I had this problem with my son I mentioned it to my HV and she said that it is so so common for babies to fuss between 6 and 10 at night. It's almost like they know that's the time you don't want to be with them!

Crying it out is definitely not recommended at that age. I think its advised not to do it before 6 months! I wouldn't do it at all. She's too young to be 'trying it on' or to learn that she won't be picked up each time.

My daughter is 11 weeks now and until yesterday had never slept longer than 30 mins whilst not attached to another human being. The magical answer - a swing seat! I previously thought they were just space consuming, gimmicky, tacky rubbish but she will sleep for hours in there. I wish we'd got one sooner.

She has always slept with me at night, until a few weeks ago always on my chest. She grew out of that and suddenly preferred to sleep next to me. I was going loopy about it at 4 weeks, but I just got used to it. I did ask the HV about it but they didn't have much advice. They said to just keep trying to put her down which I did, it never worked though. I think some babies just need the comfort of being held.

For naps on the day she slept on me in the beginning. Then I got a Close baby sling and she is happy in there.

I'm considering moving the swing into our bedroom so she can sleep a few hours in there in the night.

You sound lovely

No, you haven't instilled a bad habit - you can't spoil a newborn. Continue to do anything possible so you all get some rest. Everyone will throw advice at you, but mine is - if it feels right, do it.

My DH used to do the same - took my DS downstairs in the early hours of the morning and play playstation with DS on his chest while i got a couple of hours sleep in.

We rocked, cuddled, co-slept, drove, walked, sung etc etc our DS to sleep at that age. If she's a fairly easy going baby on the whole i would think she'll eventually adapt to sleeping on her own - at the moment she's so small she doesn't understand that she's a separate entity. As her awareness grows she'll learn to sleep on her own.

I used to worry about exactly the same things as you. I read books for advice, many of which told me i was making a 'rod for my own back' by doing what i was doing. As my confidence in being a parent grew, so too did my knowledge of my DS. When he was ready i began putting him down for more regular naps when he seemed tired, but didn't force it. If he cried, i picked him up, comforted him and tried again later.

Seriously, she's still tiny and probably still trying to figure out night and day. You could try introduce a bedtime routine now, even if she ends up sleeping on you on the sofa for now. Just encourage her to know night from day for now.

btw - DS sleeps 12-13 hours every night solid now at 13 months. He naps like a trooper too, without needing any props to put him to sleep.

Relax a bit and enjoy - those early weeks are so precious.

And congratulations! You will get through it.

Just to ad, white noise works wonders in getting our little one off to sleep. We have to have it really loud though.

We had our first baby in September, she is 13 weeks old now. We also had the same questions as you!. I think at four weeks its fine to cuddle baby to sleep, they are too young to manipulate you and just want to feel secure, our daughter was the same, sleeping on our chest for longer periods than in moses basket. I began a routine at around 9 weeks but would not recommend letting them cry, I believe they are too small.

As for the crying, we had same problem at 6 weeks. I was breastfeeding and every feed was becoming a nightmare, with her crying and she was waking lots in the night. I went to see my health visitor and was so tired and emotional that she recommended i top baby up with formula. I didnt want to do this at first but thought I could not continue with the way things had become. Since topping up with formula the crying stopped and sleeping really improved, I know people may not agree, but they are only babies for a short time and you are supposed to enjoy them. I still breastfeed but top up with bottles at each feed and our baby is much more content. Things do improve, the first 6 weeks in my experience were the hardest, they do get into a routine though. Try not to overthink things (like I did) and just go with it, most of all enjoy her, you sound like a brilliant dad.

Please don't let your 4 week old cry it out. I have a 4 week old too and a 2 year old. I can tell you now that you'll look back and realise how tiny and vulnerable they are.

It's all normal. It will get easier and you'll be able to put her down.

Your wife should try feeding lying down - ask a BF counsellor or look up the position online. You can pop baby next you and latch on and baby will settle. Million times easier than sitting up for feeds. You can set up the cot next to your bed and as she gets older gradually move her into it.

We didn't nail a bedtime routine for DS until closer to 4 months as he'd get too tired. I expect we'll do similar with DD. By the way, DS is a great sleeper now.

Hi all,

Thanks very much for all of these insights and advice. I'm really humbled by how much thought and time people have given to it.

I'm pleased to hear the "cry it out" thing is getting shot down and no we are not doing this, I couldnt bring myself to.

Things aren't improving but some of what you have said has helped and its always good to know others are in the same boat.

Our Daughter is a wonderful little girl and we're trying to enjoy these times but it can be tough. Don't want to "wish it all away" but hope that thing improve.

I guess we need to go with our instincts and stop worrying about the advice from people who are forcing it (i.e. family)

Thank you again!