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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

4yo still not toilet trained

14 replies

SenseofEntitlement · 19/12/2011 22:24

DD1 is 4 and will be 5 in March. She goes to school and was at nursery before that. She still has accidents - wee and poo.

It is mostly wee, but that can be up to four times a day. She is now managing maybe 3 or 4 school days a weeks dry, but most nights she wets herself at home at least once. Lately she has started pooing as well.

What can I do? I'm at my wits end.

She understands that she has to keep going to the toilet to try, but it seems that she doesn't want to - we have to play at racing her, or pretend we don't know where it is or whatever. Apparently school make her try every half hour or so.

She does go off in daydreams quite a lot, so I don't know if she maybe gets so engrossed in things that she forgets or something. She doesn't seem to care if she is wet or dirty, and will sometimes hide it. Other times she doesn't even seem to notice.

Developmentally, she is very clever - reads and writes well for her age, knows plenty of facts and asks the right questions to get more information. She is a bit awkward with her own age group, but she gets on well with adults usually. She wears pull ups at night and still has a dummy, so I suppose she is quite babylike in that way, but me and my sisters were still having accidents at night into double figures, so I don't want to even tackle that yet.

Any ideas?

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

denergy · 20/12/2011 02:54

Well without meaning to be rude to you.. You are giving her 2 different messages.. By keeping the dummy..you are saying OK to be a baby..yet at other times she has to grow up.. Maybe you should arrange for the dummy fairies to take them and then you can start on her being grown up..

Make a big think about the dummy fairies..they need to collect all of the old dummies clean them all up, so as they can put them back in packets/shops..for all of the new babies that are being born..Dummy fairies come at night ...like the tooth fairies do.. You put all of your dummies..and bottles if need be.. in a bag..leave it outside the front door and in the morning when you look..there is a new toy..or whatever it is your child likes..preff not sweets.. You could try it right away..be ferm about the needs of new babies..tell her Father christmas has asked the fairies to come if need be.. Also it will help if you take her to the WC before she is to get in bed and also before you go to bed..make sure the lights are not full on, just a night like..so as her eyes do not hurt with the bright lights when you get her out of bed to put her on the loo.. If you can,,sort of half wake her and lift her take her to sit on the loo then put her back in bed.. Do this even if she is wearing pull-ups. See how that goes.. make sure she has a loo first thing in the morning..before she wets her pants..as we all need a wee first thing..so try to make sure that when she wakes she goes to the loo before anything else. Of course give great praise for doing these things and if she ( or He..for that matter..has a dry night..tell everyone (That knows about her little problem) (Don't tell all that do not know as this will only make her feel ..not so good that you told strangers, or people that are not close..) Just those that do know..and get them to also tell her how grown up she is.. Also when you send the dummies to the fairies..tell everyone and get them to re-enforce the new babies need them..and how good it was of her to give them. Most importantly you must not go back on what you have started..even if there is tears and screams for a night or 2 .. you really cannot keep giving children different messages.. remember you are the adult, they are the child..they need to be able to trust your word, and changing your mind will make them feel..you cannot be trusted.. Yes must be yes and no must be no,, if you are not sure then it is a maybe..but don't say no them yes if they shout about no..no is no..but then again don't say yes..then no later..because the is not what trust is all about..they are children they need to be able to trust your word..
Have you mentioned this problem to your doctor?? Everytime she goes to the WC and has a wee or poo praise her..Is it hard for her to reach the door handle or the light..if you have a pully light cord then tie extra string on it so it is longer, also leave the loo door open..Don't forget to make a big happy song and dance about her being fantastic when she does use the loo.. and please do not talk in front of children about what you were like as a child..you mentioned that you had a problem with this as a child..did you have bladder or other incontinence problems that had to be corrected?? if not ..what made you stop??

theoldheaveho · 20/12/2011 08:32

I don't think it's the dummies that are the problem tbh. My ds and a couple of his friends still have dummies at 3.5 and they are toilet trained.

Do you think there is any chance she might be constipated? Sometimes when a child gets really constipated they can start to wet themselves and poo themselves ( loose diarrhoeay)?

I'd definitely speak to a health visitor or doctor just to see if there is any problem like that, but it could just be that she's become lazy and needs retrained.

I'm sure she'll be fine, hope you get it sorted out .

legobuilder · 20/12/2011 13:19

i wouldnt remove dummy now either - she's probably just exhausted at the start of school, and feeling a bit overwhelmed. a comforter being removed wont help i wouldnt think.

i agree speak to doc/ HV, and also go mad on stickers and rewards and praise. If she is reluctant to go to the loo when asked (and lord knows my son is) make that the focus - give her a choc button/sticker for going/trying when asked. don't worry about night pants - i know loads of kids aged 4-6 who wear them. my son wore then til 4yrs 8months, despite dry days from 2.5yrs. saying that he peed all over the floor right before his xmas show at school (he'll be 5 next month)

good luck - stressful and annoying i know

Anjelika · 20/12/2011 13:34

Sorry to hijack the thread but legobuilder, can I ask how you weaned your DS off night pants? My DS is 4yrs 10 months, has been potty trained for about 2 years but still seems to need these at night. He never has accidents in the day but every morning his sleep nappy is wet and about 3-4 nights out of 7 he's had a poo too. I just need some help I think with weaning him off them.

ommmward · 20/12/2011 16:38

If a child is still wet at night, that's a hormonal thing - you can't train a child not to wet the bed, you just have to wait until their hormones have changed and they magically stop weeing in their sleep. Not something you have any control over, and neither does your child.

chickflick · 22/12/2011 23:19

Try contacting eric they are a charity that deals with these issues specifically.They have a helpline and a website with information and they are very good.

AnxiousElephant · 22/12/2011 23:33

I would speak to the school nurse who could refer her to the continence service.
Incidentally this may be a negative attention issue as the constant prompting is attention. Constant urinating prevents the bladder from filling properly and expanding, which in turn limits its capacity. Stop prompting as she needs to learn to recognise full bladder signals. Ensure she drinks plenty and encourage her to hold it for a short time to strengthen the muscles. Encourage her to try to stop it coming out mid wee, again to strengthen the muscles.
Try to get her to give up the dummy as this does give conflicting messages - if she is a big girl then no dummy.
If she has 'daydreams' she could be having vacant fits so it is also worth referral to a paediatrician. HTH

chickydoo · 22/12/2011 23:38

After nurses, peadatricians, examinations, medication, physio, dry nites, alarms, physios, O't's and 6 new matresses later. My daughter is finally dry at night, how old is she? deep breath.....15!!

AnxiousElephant · 22/12/2011 23:40

I feel your pain chicky ........I was 12!

AnxiousElephant · 22/12/2011 23:42

incidentally there is also evidence to link night time dryness to with puberty in girls and I know plenty who became dry within weeks of menstruating.

Original poster

SenseofEntitlement · 23/12/2011 15:43

She got rid of the dummy! I'm actually shocked how easy that was. One night of tricking her (I know, but it worked) by saying she just had to read in her bed without the dummy, and I would bring it in after reading time, and of course left it till she had fallen to sleep. Since then, we just started saying "what a big girl, you don't have a dummy any more!" and she went along with it. She has been hard to get to sleep, but we have just let her read in bed and she is definitely starting to get the hang. She will be leaving the dummy on the Christmas tree for Santa.

Now for the toilet...

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Original poster

SenseofEntitlement · 23/12/2011 15:46

Do you think she is old enough for it to be an actual concern? I feel daft making a big fuss if most kids are like this.

OP posts:

peppajay · 23/12/2011 18:03

Just out of interest how does she cope at school is she in big girl knickers or does she wear pull ups??

Original poster

SenseofEntitlement · 23/12/2011 18:49

She wears knickers, we just have to send in loads of changes. She sometimes has days where she stays dry, but mostly she has at least one accident, often more.

I'm kind of hoping it just "clicks" one day - everything else with her has done that. She was the same with crawling and walking - late, but then one day she could just do it.

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