Crying in front of toddler

[EmmaCate]

DS 22 months, DD 6 weeks. On Wed discovered DD gaining weight slowly and has slipped a percentile. She's OK but it shook me up as DS never had probs and I wasn't prepared for it.

Not surprisingly given age and new baby, DS getting bad separation anxiety and at the moment won't go to sleep alone - I normally have to sit with him and hold his hand and/or sing. I know I'm making a rod but it hasn't been for long and I'm prepared to indulge him rather than mentally scar him, and see if things get better in time (the one night I did leave him to feed DD downstairs he screamed for the whole time; c. 30 mins).

Last night DH home after bedtime again and I was trying to get DS to bed while trying to feed fretful & prone-to-possetting DD in his room. DS was having tantrum whenever I withdrew my hand (to help her feed/stop her squirming) and it suddenly got too much for me and I started crying and asking DS to "Please go to sleep". Ended up us all crying for various reasons and I walked into our room to help her feed but kept crying in there, which DS could probably hear. He was knackered (major part of tantrum problem) and effectively passed out while I was away in there but he stirred later and said "Mummy....baby...." kind of in his sleep.

Have I really traumatised him? Is breaking down that way a complete no-no? Hopefully I will be OK in future and it all got a bit much for me that one day. I hate the crying out of 'Baby' that he does when he's upset - it's obviously really bothering him. I resent having to do chores in the day and not spend so much time with him, but of course he can't understand that his current bedtime routine is very suffocating on a practical level. Often don't start our dinner until 8.30/8.45pm and we like to go up to bed at 10...

I feel for you. DD1 is 2.10 DD2 13w. We had exactly your situation and more but all back to normal now. Don't forget your son has to accept life has changed so if you didn't sing him to sleep before, I'd stop soonish if I were you. Having done the feed while reading story thing I have now switched to a feed before bath, stick them in together (best thing we did for their bonding) then baby out while toddler has a "swim" and a splash. In bouncy chair which I furiously rock with foot while I sort DD1 out, loo, story etc. She gets her time and I prioritise her for half an hour (while rocking chair at first sign of grumble). She gets a big kiss and cuddle and a goodnight then I say it's baby's milk time and stress how patient and good baby been while she's had her story etc emphasising taking turns etc. It's taken a while but now it's our new post baby routine and it's fine most nghts. You're still so early into this stage so don't beat yourself up. I think the magic 6w is more like 12 with a second child and a toddler. Hth a bit!

I think you're being too hard on yourself. I don't think it hurts children to see that it's OK to cry and that sometimes grown ups do too - I certainly don't think you've traumatised him in any way.

Firstly - babies do drop centiles, they go up centiles - it's not really an issue unless they drop several suddenly IIRC. Slow weight gain in the early weeks isn't too unusual either, so don't panic about that.

SkiBumMumI think, says a lot of sensible things. DS has to accept things are different - you're not going to mentally scar him by putting him to bed as you used to. Getting him back into something that resembles his old bedtime routine might help :)

You're not making a rod for your own back by shushing and stroking him, but it might well be confusing him that this is happening now the baby is here and it wasn't before IYSWIM?

Is it possible to leave DD downstairs/in her bed and do DS's bedtime so that he has a little time with you, and then sort out DD's feed. It might mean leaving DD for a few minutes when she's upset, but if it gets DS down more quickly(and stops him screaming) and leaves you MORE time for DD then it might help?

I will add, I have no experience of this, DD is 21mo and I am 24w pregnant so am going on instinct rather than anything else!

Hello, I have SO been there too (still there, sometimes). When DD2 was born DD1 was 2.4 and quite needy. I tried to have the baby feeding with us while in DD1's bed reading stories but it was torture so as soon as I could (which was not till DD2 was about 6 months!) I got the baby down earlier so I could at least have that quality bedtime with DD1. EG got the baby in her cot all settled by 7pm then could have 45 mins reading etc with DD1. But still had to endure listening to the crying of the baby sometimes in the other room and being so torn....my thoughts were at the time that DD1 was getting so much less of me that she was used to because of DD2's arrival, that at least the bedtime 30 mins or so were HERS so we could have one on one.....I used to get so furious with DH by coming home late as he has no idea how hard it it to get the 2 of them dinner/bath/bed when their needs are so diverse...
Anyway. Don't worry about crying, it's good for DS to learn that we all have emotions, just tell him he's not the reason you are sad, you are just tired but better now. Don't worry about centiles, they go up and down and it's fine so long as it's not too far in either direction. Can you have your dinner for now with DS at 5pm and DH can just reheat the same thing on a plate when he gets in? It's just till you get through this phase......Also I start bedtime really early these days, to help, so it's dinner at 5pm then straight into the bath after, so by 6.15pm I have both kids in PJs with milk in front of a film (I have to then do nit combing for 30 mins OMG what a pain that is, they get little or no telly through the day) then baby into bedroom at 6.45pm story etc, so DD1 is engrossed in movie and can be left (we have a small flat) then 7.15pm back to DD1 and half an hour with her in bed with books. Sorry to ramble, HTH. xx

Dd 2.5, DS 6 weeks - I feel your pain! And thank god my dd is still ok with her bedtime routine and sleeps thru pretty much. And I've still cried myself! It's really hard sometimes - my dh is often not back till 7.45.

I tend to feed DS like mad just before dd's supper. Then he dozes with dummy while she has it. Then I try to feed him up again before doing bath with her, he dozes thru bath and bedtime in his bouncy chair which I put just outside dds room. Hopefully he stays asleep till dh gets home/dd is asleep!

Doesn't always work tho and sometimes I have to feed him sitting in bathroom while dd splashes.

Yawn sign. We will manage somehow!

Thanks everyone - all your suggestions do really help. I do leave DD sleeping in her chair downstairs over bath so he gets 'me' for that time, but then we come back downstairs for milk/story and that whole time usually (unbelivably) draws out to an hour. Then when we go up to bed at 7.30 it often takes DS half an hour to fall asleep and by then DD will invariably be starting to cry. If I leave DS to settle her when he's sleepy but not asleep he will often get very upset and we regress, exacerbating the issue by taking more time to settle him.

I think I need to get a good routine sorted, you are all correct; we moved house as well a week before DD arrived and so to an extent we are all readjusting to life in our new layout. DD sleeps OK in her bouncer but it seems to make her wind bad so after one sleep cycle she gets restless and you have to go back to her fairly often to settle. I have a small crib now that I can put her in (in the living room) for the evenings and hopefully that will give me time to DS down. Also I think I may do bedtime with DS entirely upstairs and cut out going back down for milk/story. I'm still in new baby = no routine mode so will start a definite 'putting her down for the night' soon and work that around DS' bedtime.

I think all of us have had an angry outburst with a child who isn't going to sleep, even when we don't have a second so please don't beat yourself up over that.

Do you have a sling you can hold/feed DD in so you have 2 hands free for DS? I'd definitely not go back downstairs and hopefully that should help your DS's bedtime routine be faster.

don't feel guilty about it really. Your DS will be fine and you will all adjust to having a new baby and how you do things from now on. I remember when DS2 was about 6 weeks DS1 was having difficulty adjusting to our new family member as we all were, and he was being very naughty. One morning I just broke down and sobbed like I have never sobbed before. He looked panic stricken and said why are you laughing mummy, and I had to say I'm not, I'm crying. Then he climed on the table and tried to feed his little brother - he had no clue what to do. I still feel awful about it to this day, but it didn't do him any harm as far as I can see! You're only human and it does take time to get into a routine which everyone is happy with. Hope you get it sorted sooner rather than later!

oh and I carried on crying all the way to nursery, a 20 min drive, and all the way back!

Another plea to not be so hard on yourself. What you describe is very common and I know I did pretty similar myself!

Having a newborn and toddler is one of the hardest things I have done (to date!) and incredibly stressful. It's a bit of a journey for the whole family and you will come out the other end, I promise!

Wishing you a calm and peaceful bedtime tonight EmmaCate :)

also, babies , and indeed toddlers!, go up and down the centiles willy nilly as growth spurts happen/lack of increase in appetite/teething/all sorts of things - its not to worry about, its only extreme changes they say to worry about apparently. Mine went from 75th centile to 50th the second he started walking/charging about, they said don't worry about it. wishing you a peaceful bedtime too! :)

lack OR increase

emmacate I am sure your ds isn't scarred by your tears. I wailed in the car driving back from a few days with my parents with ds (4 weeks) in the back and dd (2) in the front next to me. Ds had literally cried solidly all day for four weeks and I was a wreck. He was later diagnosed with silent reflux and is getting better at 7 m now but it's been a bloody dreadful period at times! Dd was mightily amused at mummy crying so obviously not a sensitive soul!!

The only reason she hasn't seen mummy cry more is that she is at nursery still a couple of days a week...

I think though she is so little that she won't remember these early few months. Also as someone mentioned above the two of them now are very sweet together and his screams are mainly replaced by giggles...

I'm sure your ds has also been affected by the new house. Maybe try saying you are going downstairs to start dinner for you and daddy but that you will come back in 5 /10 mins. Do pop back as promised and he will grow more settled again I'm sure.

Wow sorry a bit of a missive! Good luck and try and get as much rest as possible!!

I love this blog post.

eglantinescake.blogspot.com/2011/09/why-dont-grown-ups-cry.html?m=1

I haven't read all the responses so I apologise if someone has already put forward this point of view.

Somewhere along the line parents and in particular mothers have got the message that it is actually not ok to be human. We are bombarded with the need to say and do the right thing at all times, to handle situations in exactly the right way and to never expose our children to "negative emotions". We are not supposed to shout or cry or show disappointment or jealousy or anything other than calmness and patience. Our children need to know what emotions are and they need to know what to do with them. When things are overwhelming it is actually ok to cry and it is ok for him to have feelings about the baby and to express them. What happened was actually healthy!!!! It was real and not buried and papered over. It is our role to model breaking down and picking it all back up again otherwise how can we expect our children to learn this skill.

btw I mean it was ok for you to cry and for the children to see that.

Thanks later posters - made me feel better. That blog is cool, although I hope Merlin is the cat/dog (I know a person called Merlin).

DS improving but has been the weekend so difficult to know how he'll be once it's Mummy doing bedtime alone again. He is at least referring to DD by her name now rather than calling her 'Baby' perpetually. I'm calmer too as she's taking more milk and not vomming as much. I don't have a sling but it sounds like a plan - maybe will invest if it carries on a while.

Can I buck the trend and offer you a bit of advice about your toddler (dd1 is 2.5 dd2 is 20 weeks)
I think he's too tired and needs a shorter bed time. Bath then together then have a 1 story then night night. Explain why it's a new routine as he's getting too tired and have a separate time of the day for your quality time together (say after Bfast cuddle/ craft time)

I think he's over tired not put out by a sibling

I have to admit that I can't really remember the early days with my two (they are 16mths apart and I do know it was hard work!) one thing that we all found helpful was playing some nice relaxing music once they were in bed.Otherwise I think that buggyRunner might have a point, perhaps your bedtime routine really is a bit long? I think that moving to a 'now it's bedtime and we will go upstairs' approach might help and in the longer run having the baby in with you during bath time with the aim that she is snoozy when your ds needs his story and mummy snuggle time might work better for you.

Really don't worry about the trauma affecting your ds, he will most likely forget it long before you will. Most small children live very much in the moment. I don't think it was very long before ds had forgotten that dd wasn't there for always.

I would go with buggy and a shirtter bedtime. We switched to tea at 5, bath at 5.30 and then c.45 mins of snuggly tv until bedtime. This means all the 'hard work' of bath, pj''s, teeth, nappy is sorted early and you can all relax before bed. Also means you can feed dd in that time, whilst cuddling DS and then pop her in her cot/basket whilst you read one on one stories with DS at bedtime.

We did the switch of bath/bedtime routine very early on (ours are 21 months apart) and have kept it that way - they are now 5.1 and 3.4. Overtiredness is horrid and all being ready for bed by 6.15 and zoning out to ITNG makes it much less stressful IMO, especially when you are doing it on your own.

Good luck