HELP 3.8yo soiling his pants every single time he needs a poo

[lemniscate]

I've posted before but it has got really crazy in recent weeks. DS potty trained in Feb, hard to train but dry and clean since apart from occasional wee accident. In Sept a lot of changes to routine meant lots of accidents. Wees are more or less fine now, although lots of dribbles - he is just too distracted to go but goes as soon as he has a little dribble.

Poos however are a disaster. In Sept they were fully in his pants, then we managed to get it to be just a small bit or skidmark and teh rest on the toilet. But for no reason in the last week or so they have all been in his pants, only two partly pants/ partly loo and the rest he is completely emptying his bowels in his pants. He alternates between telling us he has no poo in his pants (which as it comes out of nowhere clearly means he does have one in his pants!), ignoring it until we comment, or secretively trying to take his pants off himself and trying to mop himself up.

He knows he shouldn't be doing it in his pants, and is embarassed/upset when he has, but it's as if he has forgotten any sensation.

Rewards do not work with him, never really have and have not worked this time. Being calm ('it doesn't matter') doesn't as he then just parrots it back and is happy to poo in his pants as he literally thinks it doesn't matter. Ignoring it but cleaning him up doesn't work as he then just behaves really badly because he wants a response. Showing our displeasure and telling him he's too big to do it in his pants just makes him more embarassed. Shouting - well I did that once and it was a disaster so I won't do that again.

This problem has only ever been at home until today. For the first time since potty training (10 months ago) he did a poo in his pants at nursery. He was apparently incredibly upset :(

Please help. We are all thoroughly depressed about this at the moment.

Should I go to the GP/HV? Are there any toileting specialists I can hire? We will willingly throw lots of money at this if we have to as it is just beyond depressing and he is really suffering emotionally with it. It has become a big issue now I think and I don't know how to get us out of this cycle.

:(

IS he constipated? Just one of mine went through a stage like this and turned out she was constipated. We hadn't realised because she seemed to be going frequently. Took her a couple of years of constipation medication to solve it.

Worth going to the GP, particularly if he was fine. What seemed to set it off for my dc was a urine infection.

yep, GP

I would think that he's got chronic constipation - there is a big block of poo in his bowel, too big to pass so fresh poo flows around the block into pants

the stretching of the bowel from the impaction can mean that he has lost sensation, so is not aware until ''too late''

but if he's bunged up a long way then he may need a scan to see how far he's backed up

dietary changes you can make in the meantime (these are anecdotal only):

avoid banana and weetabix - they can really dry out poo in transit

lots and lots of water, fruit, veg

Go to the GP. Sort it out now before he starts school

Good news is most cases of chronic constipation are easily and effectively sorted with the wonder drug that is movicol :o Good Luck!

Thank you all :). I've never thought of constipation because if anything he is actually more often loose than solid (which makes cleaning up so awful for us all). We did get a diagnosis of toddler diarrhea about a year ago because he does have a particularly bad reaction to some fruits, but that got better initially with potty training. So i've never thought of constipation as being the issue! But it - particularly the loss of sensation - could make sense. It really is as if he has completely forgotten what needing a poo feels like until it is too late.

Right, GP appt tomorrow. I feel a little better just knowing there is something to explore.

Ah yes, just googled, and realise that he hardly ever drinks - we call him the cactus! - so it's quite possible that he is constipated even though he does eat a fair bit of fruit. Thank you again. Shall follow up with GP.

hi lovey.
Not sure this will be any help whatsoever but I'll try.
I work with kids and have encountered lots of children who have difficulty using the toilet, especially to poo on. Try making it more of a game to use the toilet rather than a chore. hourly visits will also help. maybe sing a song or read a book whilst he sits down. encourage his nursery to help you too, a key worker or child professional there should help you through this.
i've even known parents who have bought pretend poos (a little indiscreet i know) to show their not embarrassed about it and i know that local libraries have various child friendly poo books which can also help to explain how your child's poo must be flushed away so that it can enjoy it's magical journey through the water!!

last of all, give yourself a very large pat on the back.....dealing with large amounts of smelly waste is not the nicest thing a mother encounters!!!

constipation does sometimes confusingly and counter-intuitively present as runny/sloppy poos

Good luck at GP and please, do ask on here for advice as you go; lots of us with practical, hands-on experience

I have an appt next Friday with the GP who is a bit more savvy about paediatric stuff.

Anything I can do in the meantime? Should I start him on an intensive fruit and water regime? Should I buy some syrup of figs? Or is it best to just carry on as normal?

get this book: www.amazon.co.uk/Constipation-Withholding-Your-Child-Soiling/dp/1843104911

just search behaviour/development and potty training boards for soiling problems and constipation. You're not alone :o