Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

Flip

Original poster

Sleep - when nothing works?

12 replies

TowMater · 01/12/2011 10:52

I know toddler sleeping is an old chestnut, and I think I've pretty much read everything out there with a theory on how to get a toddler to stay in bed... But where do you turn if nothing works?????
DS (3 yrs & 3 months) has never been a spectacularly good sleeper, always waking at least twice a night, but he used to settle fairly quickly once we took the HV advice to have a bed for him in our room for him to come to in the night, and this worked for about a year. We had to take the bed back to his room once the night time wakings again reached ridiculous proportions, waking constantly and demanding attention (to be tucked in, kiss, find his comforter, wee, poo, etc etc...). Recently he wakes at least 2/3 times a night as well as waking up at 5 insisting it's time to get up. He has a consistent bedtime routine and regular bedtime (7.30 - 8) and getting him off to sleep isn't much of a problem. When he wakes we keep things quiet and matter of fact, lead him straight back to bed, tuck him in & tell him it's still 'sleepy time' but as soon as either me or DH are out of the door he's whinging and wanting something and getting straight back out of bed (or just shouting "No! Not Sleepy Time!").
It can take up to an hour to settle him back down. We even tried him in our bed but it's impossible as he kicks and squirms and won't go to sleep.
We've even got a gro-clock but he totally ignores it.
It is literally making us all ill, from sleep deprivation and mental torture. He must only be getting about 7 hours (sometimes less) a night. I suppose what I want to know is whether the GP would laugh at me if I took my son to see him and ask for advice? Has anyone else tried everything and then had to go to the GP, or a sleep clinic or know of something that might be medically wrong with him?
W are getting desperate...
T

OP posts:

MrsTruper · 01/12/2011 11:36

I do sympathise.

Are u definitely not giving in to the demands of "tucked in, kiss, find his comforter, wee, poo...."???...i.e. by the third time of him getting out of bed, you take him back to his room in SILENCE and do not do the kiss OR ANYTHING ELSE - you do nothing but plonk on bed and quickly pull covers up.

If you are sure that you are definitely are not giving unnecessary attention, then the next step would be lock the door and put potty in room. Make sure the room is safe.

That's my advice, from experience and watching lots. of nanny programmes on TV

MrsTruper · 01/12/2011 11:39

obviously have key available/ in door for emergencies

Original poster

TowMater · 01/12/2011 13:00

Hi MrsTruper,
No, don't give in to all his demands, we have to help him with the potty as he hasn't mastered getting his pants back up on his own, but as for the rest we just gently but firmly put him back in his bed and walk out. We keep lights to a minimum and no cuddling/talking etc (we've only ever done that when he's been scared by something like a noise outside).
We have tried warning him that we'll close the door if he doesn't settle down, but on the occasions we've tried that he becomes completely hysterical, not temper screaming but genuinely upset & scared, so we don't do that now. We've had loads of chats with him about going back to bed in the night, & that Mummy & Daddy aren't far away etc etc etc. We really and truly are completely stuck - we've seen all those TV shows too. Maybe we just have a particularly bloody minded toddler?

OP posts:

Samvet · 01/12/2011 13:02

Millpond sleep clinic! They were great with our baby.

StrongestMummyInTheWorld · 01/12/2011 14:39

An piece of advice that helped us is that exhausted children can't fall asleep easily. They may crash with complete exhaustion but then wake up and not be able to fall back to sleep again. A warning sign is if they are going to sleep very quickly at bedtime - normally it should take 15 minutes or so. We did a sleep diary and confirmed that our 7 month old was getting 8 - 9 hours sleep a day. I spent two weeks helping her to go back to sleep until she was getting about 11 hours a day. I don't know if that idea might help you?

Original poster

TowMater · 01/12/2011 19:19

Hi,
Thanks for the advice, DS always takes a while to go off to sleep, anywhere between 10-20 minutes. He will then sleep for about 4 to 4 and a half hours and then starts waking regularly and going through the performance I've mentioned above. He should be able to sleep as he has active days, but once he's awake in the night it's murder to get him to go back to sleep!

OP posts:

Tgger · 01/12/2011 20:54

Millpond sleep book also very good if you don't want to go as far as the clinic. "Teach your child to sleep". Some very good examples of all sorts of sleep problems and solutions (important bit!!!).

Octaviapink · 02/12/2011 06:53

I'm surprised he's needing the potty at night - is he not in pullups still? 3 is very young to be expecting them to manage to keep themselves dry and he may be stressed about it.

I would put a stairgate across the door of his room - that way he can have the door open but can't get out. Once you know he's got everything he needs he can potter about in his room - you'll probably find that he puts himself back to bed once his stalling techniques don't work.

Finally - 5 am is the beginning of the day for toddlers. You could try a Gro-Clock to keep him in bed a little bit longer (our two last till 5.30) but the best thing to do is just get up. You might need to go to bed a bit earlier.

rubyslippers · 02/12/2011 07:00

I would second millpond

They are very good

Your GP shouldn't laugh and you and there are sleep clinics - this is something your HV may be able to help you with

IMO, 5/5.3o am is not morning. If my 2 wake before 6 am they are told its night time ... You don't want to re-inforce an early waking

I also think you may believ you are being consistent but you aren't - not surprising when you are utterly exhausted, sometimes a third party like a sleep clinic can really help wiht this

Original poster

TowMater · 02/12/2011 08:22

Hi,
Thanks for the comments & advice, we have an appointment with the GP today. And I've ordered the Millpond book, I'd seen this on Amazon but had dismissed it before as I just presumed it would be the same as all the others ;)!
DS is still in pull ups at night, but once he's awake he wants to wee in the potty and not in the pull-up (which I suppose is good as it shows he's potty trained) and I don't think that the need to wee is what is waking him up....

OP posts:

Tgger · 02/12/2011 20:15

I also think 5/5.30 is NOT the beginning of the day (not in my book anyway!!!). Once they are 2/3 I think day starting at 6 or 7 (in our house ;-)) is not an unrealistic possibility.

Milco · 02/12/2011 22:36

I have also got the Millpond book. We found a combination of "gradual withdrawal" and the sleep fairy worked very well with our DS, who was a similar age at the time (exactly 3 I think). Basically gradually getting tougher/withdrawing more attention alongside rewards from the "sleep fairy" the next morning if he'd managed to do as we'd asked. Was a slightly different situation, but I think the book is good at setting out a range of different technique for a range of different problems so that you can tailor an approach which will hopefully work for you.

Lots of stuff about sleep cycles etc too, if I remember correctly. And yes, I remember something about going to bed earlier sometimes helping with poor sleep too.

Good luck.

Flip