Worried and Embarrased by DS (3.5yrs) behaviour

[kiwidreamer]

DS started preschool back in Sept, we've had a few niggly issues in that while he has settled in happily there are some gaps in his social skills apparently. The main issue is that he is quite boisterous, he is very tall/solid for his age (23kgs) and when he runs around he can cause damage and he just will not listen/modify his behaviour. When he doesnt have a focus he starts to act up and be 'silly' which is basically any number of antisocial behaviours (tearing around the room, lashing out etc). The teachers have said several times its not malicious but it has to be tempered as he is too disruptive. Last week I was asked to keep a journal to see if we can pin point a catalyst (tired, hungry, needing attention, not coping). This morning I was called in early to come and collect him, he had thrown a toy hammer up in the air and it had hit a teacher in the eye and she'd had to go to A&E due to her contact lenses etc. The supervising teacher said the hammer wasnt thrown at the teacher, it wasnt a malicious act but all the same in conjunction with his other 'unpredictable' behaviours he isnt allowed back at preschool until the situation can be addressed. She thinks he needs an extra support person to be with him permantly to curb any of these unpredictable acts. Obviously this raises funding issues and we might have to pay for the extra attention. Suffice to say I was mortified this morning, sure he is a bit of a handful but basically suspended from preschool??!!

Another example was that he 'was struggling with the christmas show' when I expressed surprise as he was loving the songs and wanting to practice all the time she said that he had learnt the words no worries but is now spending the group practice time tearing around the room and not concentrating / focusing etc. He used to do this at playgroup too during the music sessions, its a little bit ok at 2yrs but really not at 3.5yrs :(

He is great with a task, loves having a job to do, can count to 20, is getting really good at number / letter recognition, likes to do 'making marks' worksheets, likes to help me prep dinner and do baking, will not play on his own to any great degree, is quite rough with his baby sister (6mths) but lovely to all other babies and animals, doesnt have any other 'quirky' behaviours (of the OCD variety), taking his things away as 'punishment' didnt work, teeny bit of success with reward chart / reward crafts for good day at preschool, regressed with TT a little bit when started preschool, didnt cope very well with new sister but much better now (still not great tho).

The next step is to have him assessed by the school pyschologist (sp??) and get one on one support for him. Has anyone else been through this process, does this sound like a particular behavioural 'condition' (ADD sort of thing??), any experiences at all that might help me feel less like the worst mother in the world :(

No advice I'm afraid. You're not the worst mother in the world, you sound lovely, caring and focused on helping your son. Hopefully someone else will have something more useful to say but please don't beat yourself up.

How is he at home? Is he equally unpredictable? Is it worth keeping a diary? Cut all processed foods with additives / sugar? Can he understand and act on simple commands (please go and get your shoes)? Does he have firm boundaries or (honestly! :o) do you let him get away with stuff because 'he's just high spirited'?

Not meant as an accusation, just a pause for reflection. Which we all have to do, and maybe then change how we are managing something. It seems to be more about his general level of understanding that certain types of behaviour are ok in some places (the park) but not in others (the classroom). Is this right?

How's his hearing?
Ds struggles in certain circumstances, particularly play time at school when it is noisy and he struggles to hear. He has multiple ear infections, and grommets, but his hearing isn't good.

He has a diary at school, and was doing really well since half term with hardly anything that wasn't good, like about one a week. Then this week on the first two days he had several sad faces... and on Tuesday evening I had to take him to the doctor with an ear infection. Unfortunately there is a very strong correlation betweek his behaviour and the state of his ears.

He is fine at home most of the time when his sisters aren't winding him up.

I got sent to the school psychologist when I was five for delinquent behaviour. The school psychologist said I wasn't delinquent, I was bored out of my mind and wasn't remotely being challenged enough by what was being asked of me. Do you think your DS might need more to do? Alternatively, he may just not be ready for preschool and the more structured environment. Boys are pretty terrible at concentrating and sitting still anyway - are there any forest schools near you?

Ok firstly I think they are being harsh if they've said you will have to pay for extra support! Wtf?!!! If they can't control/help him or believe he needs some sort of additional help or indeed has SN then they need to fund it not you!!! Bloody cheek!!
Second I do think a lots expected of 3 year olds these days which is why in some parts of the world they don't start school until 8 years old.

I would ask for the ed pysch to come in and ask to talk to their senco and also make notes about how he is at home. How is he with discipline?
My dd1 has adhd so I've been there done that. A good book for young kids who are a tad lively is 123 magic very good discipline method for overactive kids.
Good luck

he just sounds like he needs more physical time outside to run about a 3 and half!

had similar with my son now alot older. it annoyed me that they blamed his behaviour on everything rather than just letting him run about alot more outside

Thanks for your replies, DH and I have been talking it through properly tonight after the kidlets went to bed, I still feel so very very badly for DS it just brings me to tears thinking about it. I know he's not doing any of the unacceptable behaviours with the intent to upset or hurt people and now he is really going to miss out, I doubt they will find a solution before Xmas so he misses out on the christmas show as well.

Better His diet is generally pretty good, in the morning before preschool he has weetabix or shreddies plus toast/crumpet if extra hungry and a cup of milk/ovaltine. He doesnt have crisps during the week, maybe a little bit of 'reward' chocolate after dinner a couple of times, no sweets (doesnt like them), has two small maryland cookies each day after fruit for afternoon tea, rice cakes / hoummous / carrots / breadsticks for other snacks. I dont think there is too much sugar on a day to day basis??? He asks for food every couple of hours, always hungry, so I try to fill him up with rice cakes etc.
I'm yet to find a really effective 'discipline' for him, we use Time Out but its never really worked but to be utterly honest these past six months or so since DDs arrival we probably have given far to many 'warnings' and taken too long to follow through. I have had a short fuse too with the lack of sleep so have been easily frustrated and a bit too shouty. I guess its a chicken egg thing with it not working, since we havent been using Time Out to its fullest potential. I will look for that book thanks Chundle. He is fine with basic commands, wont always do what he is asked first time but I thought that was pretty typical of three yr olds?

He is quite attention seeking at home lately, hasnt coped particularly well with DD's arrival, he lashes out at her quite often which was really really surprising as he has always adored babies/toddlers. I assumed it would settle and it is better but still a few issues.

There is very little outdoor space at his preschool, basically a courtyard full of outdoor toys and definitely no running around space, which is probably why he ends up running in the hall as there is more space. He scoots to preschool, 20mins, every day there and home again, I did hope that would burn off a bit of energy.

I know he needs to learn that there is a time and a place for certain behaviours but it just seems awfully unfair that he is expected to 100% grasp acceptable school like behaviour in less than 2 terms (been home with me previously), I'm even more afraid for him having to start school in Sept 12, he'll only be 4.2yrs.

and now Im extra embarrassed as Ive realised I've spelt 'embarrassed' wrong im my header oops!

I think it sounds really harsh for him to be excluded for the behaviours you have described. He also sounds very similar, behaviour wise, to my DS1, 3.9yrs. He has always been extremely challenging and boisterous and not easy to discipline. The way I would describe DS1 is that he likes to test boundaries, over and over, god help them if they show weakness!

When DS1 first started pre-school, there were a few incidents, he pushed someone at the top of the slide (not malicious but more impatient and not thinking of possible consequences), he tried to throw some small chairs over the fence outside.

Like you I was embarrassed and worried. I asked DS1's keyworker what methods of discipline were used and she said it was more heaping on praise for the good behaviour. She found that rather than giving DS a sticker at the end of the day for being good, she would break the day up into much smaller chunks so he got opportunities for alot more stickers.

He is absolutely fine now at pre-school. Home is another matter, he is still very boisterous and silly and cannot keep still, ever! I do take him for meals out etc, but honestly, he constantly fidgets on chair, keeps trying to slide under table etc. He fell off the chair in a cafe the other day.

He also will run off rather than walk nicely when we leave school.

I get the impression that this behaviour, although challenging for parents, is not unusual for a 3yr old boy.

Have you considered changing pre-school because it sounds to me like they aren't handling it very well at all.

I would give serious considerstion to moving him from the pre-school and finding somewhere more suitable.
TBH, the pre-school sound a bit rubbish. I work in a day ursery and have come across lots of children like your ds and I am in shock that they have suspended him.
He needs space to run around in- look for a nursery where they can go in and out as they please- it sounds like that would suit him better.
As for the nativity thing- it's totally inappropriate to expect him to practice over and aver and not to get bored.
You say he does work sheets. is that at home or at the pre-school? No good pre-school or nursery would even entertain giving children worksheets.
he is bound to be unsettled after the birth of his sister, it can be ahuge upheaval for some children. A good pre-school will recognise this and support you all.
His diet sounds ok to me.
If he needs 1-1, the pre-school should provide this and you should not have to pay.
Finally, have you had his hearing checked? As something as simple as glue ear can cause disruptive behaviour. I am SENCO for the setting where I work and certainly wouldn't be referring to a pyschologist until all avenues of investigation had been explored.
Have they done any observations themselves? Have they spotted any triggers? have they given you any strategies to try?
From what you post they don't seem to have tried very hard.

This could be my little boy you are writing about. He is just as you describe and we have been banned from several playgroups, however at pre school he is fantastic and this is because there is structure. The ladies at pre school cant believe what he is like in other situations because he is so good when a structure in place. We cant attend toddler groups anymore only structured groups ie swimming, music or gym and he thrives on the structure but free play at a park or soft play is a nightmare!!!! Like your little one he will not play on his own at home. I just make sure he is really busy and occupied and then he is no where near as boisterous!!!! He starts school in sept and to be am not worried about him in the classroom but am very worried about how he is going to be in playground play. The other reason I think he is more boisterous out and about is coz he loves the attention the 'no's' and the 'stop its' because he is generally a compliant child he realises this behaviour gets attention. HTH xx

The preschool is outstanding in terms of OFSTED rating but I guess that doesnt mean anything if it just doesnt meet the needs of children who fall outside of the normal range. While the kids can go in and out as much as they please they only can go into a paved courtyard, there is no garden / grass area and certaining no space for running around. Preschool is held in the church hall, a main room and the courtyard, with an extra room when the groups need to be separated. The christmas rehersing is done in the main church, new and exciting I suspect plus a lot of free space mixed with dead bored cos he knows the words already and he cant sit still??

purepurple the worksheets are definitely at home and not preschool, I could see he was really struggling with a 'blank canvas' (hardly ever draws / paints) but when I was writing xmas cards he wanted to write too 'and make those wiggly shapes mummy' so from mumsnet I found a link to some 'making marks' sheets, basically dotted lines showing where to start on a forward slash / backwards slash / U / n / O / lines / join the dots. I leave them on the kitchen table and he will pick them up himself or ask to do them, I dont make him sit and practice or anything! we've never had ear issues with him, never needed antibiotics for an ear infection but I think I might get him in to the Dr just to rule out any issues. The supervising teacher has never asked me about how he coped with DD's arrival, I think things were just starting to escalate last week when she asked me to keep a journal of his 'excitable moments' so we could see if there was any pattern, up to that point she was thinking along the lines of low blood sugar and from there we were going see if any patterns and come up with strategies. I was happy with that and was doing my best to note down incidents.

It really feels like the suspension is a real knee-jerk reaction to the teacher getting hurt and of course that is terrible and I really hope she is okay but any number of the kids could have been having an off day and thrown something??

To me the preschool sessions have very loose structure, there are tables laid out with activities (maths, drawing, book, role play, lego/blocks, cars, paint, weekly area of interest (space/castles/under the sea etc). The kids do what they want when they want and then have tidy up time, then loo and snacks, then singing / action songs in smaller groups or all together for Christmas rehersing then they sit on chairs in a semi circle and wait to be collected.

I suspect he is used to having my undivided attention and is struggling with the concept of having to find his own way, of course this is something he must learn and I want to find ways to help my son be the best he can be and get the most out of his education.