When is a tantrum being naughty?

[MissHonkover]

DD is 17 months. She's always been a cry-y and narky baby, so we're used to her kicking off. Before each development milestone she's been particularly bad tempered.

She's now at the age where she's having tantrums from frustration about not being able to communicate fully/work a toy/reach something, and we'd love to be able to manage this a bit.

Oh wise MNers, what do you about this? It's pretty wearing, but it's different from, say, an older child demanding to be bought something in a shop, isn't it? A friend is suggesting a naughty step.

NOOOOO! They are too little for naughty step at 17 months. Distraction, ignoring, both tried and tested .

Also yes it is wearing so get out to playgroup/outside, something that floats both of your boats so that these tricky times can be taken in your stride more. Don't worry only lasts about 2 years ...

Thanks Tgger. We go out every day without fail, only way I can cope. She's very easily bored and gets so fractious otherwise.

The friend who suggested the naughty step was flabbergasted that DD has at least two meltdowns a day, so I suspect her kids were a bit more placid...

I recommend reading Helping Young Children Flourish by Aletha Solter. I believe a tantrum is never naughty, but some elements that can happen within them (especially with slightly older children), like being violent so someone, self-harm or destroying things, need to be dealt with. Distracting a child from or ignoring their simple expression of frustrations and hurt feelings sets a bad precedent for their emotional health (although it's the standard method in our society). The tantrums may signify a build-up of tensions or minor hurts (inevitable in every child's life), with the little issue that's apparently caused it just being the last straw. I believe that best thing you can do is accept all her feelings and acknowledge their validity, while not allowing any aggression etc as above, if anything like that develops. The idea of putting her on a naughty step for expressing the genuine frustration of being her age is heartbreaking.

I don't agree with any sort of discipline suchas naughty step etc until they are at least 3 as they are exploring and testing their boundaries they don't understand right and wrong and even if they understand 'no' they don't have the willpower to stop doing what they want even if they know its wrong.

You could also look into doing a Webster Stratton Toddler Parenting Course in your local area teaches you how to deal with their behaviour and why they behave the way they do. I thought it was very helpful.

This is reassuring, thanks all.

I do talk to her when she's kicking off, and try to explain why she can't have/do/touch etc, just wish there was a mute button.

Yes, far too young for naughty step

When I saw your thread title I was going to answer 'When they can turn it on and off like a tap', thinking of my 6 year old who does that sometimes....

But a 17 month old just needs distracting/ignoring as appropriate.

carolinecordery- toddler tantrums at 1.5/2 are often a simple and to do with boundary testing. If you don't ignore or distract these I think you will go potty (well I did/would!!!).

I would say be kind, be strong and make sure she has enough to eat and enough sleep.

By the way a friend found some research that said something like 2 year olds often have at least one meltdown a day, so two ain't that bad . Also, if you have any friends with beautifully behaved 2 year olds don't worry they will probably go through it at 3- this happened to some of my friends!!! Part of it is the child developing, and part of it is the relationship between parent and child developing so the parent can handle child better .

Distress-tantrums shouldn't be ignored or punished, and yes, your instinct is right, they are different from Little Nero tantrums. It is probably frustration at this age and she will need your help to get/keep herself under control. Don't just ignore her, otherwise you're not teaching her anything. Help her to do whatever it is she can't reach/do, and if she's trying to communicate about something try and help her make herself understood. If she totally melts down just stay with her and give what comfort you can (just next to her if she won't be touched). It's really important to help her manage herself - toddlers are scared when they lose control. Particularly bad at hungry and tired times, of course.

It is also worth remembering that at this age they still need just as many cuddles as when they were newborn, but because you're not feeding them any more they can be short of loving physical contact. (I'm sure she does get cuddles, but perhaps not as many!) Of course that's not something they can identify themselves. Why not try a regime of cuddling for a few days and see if it helps?

And I wouldn't bother with the naughty step ever - it's overrated!

Thanks everyone, glad to know I'm on the right track. I think her history of being cry-y and bored/frustrated sometimes means we have less patience. I find the whiny irritable stuff the hardest to deal with.

Unfortunately she's not a very cuddly baby, and never has been, so comforting her that way is pretty much impossible unless she's ill.

Sounds just like my son was. He was always very hard work as a baby, and had out bursts of temper from 12 months. He's a brilliant 2.6 year old now, very funny, but still as narky, noisy, whiney, and explosive as ever. (He too only liked cuddles etc if he was ill, he likes lots of hugs now though.)
I think half the time he just can't help it and I'm sure that often it used to upset him how out of control he would get, he would lose it over a tiny thing, and even when that was then put right, it would be too late (banana breaking, bricks falling down etc etc) and the tantrum would just escalate. My 2nd baby, is sooooo different. I used to wonder what I was doing wrong when I compared myself and my DS to my friends and their babies, but now I realise, it was just his character. Chin up, it's hard work, and it may not get easier as such, but it will change and there will be many rewards in between the crazy teeth gritting parts.

When they pause, look over, and check that their tantrum is being witnessed. Happens somewhere between 2 and 3 :)

Ignore ignore ignore, and if all else fails then the rugby ball good us very effective

Oh, and baby signing was extremely effective at minimising frustrations. We learnt from watching something special a couple of times a day

Rugby ball hold

I agree with caroline above. I use a 'How to talk so kids will listen' strategy and try to describe to DS how he feels, why, and explain why he can't do what he wants, then offer an alternative that he can do.

e.g "You were frustrated because you wanted to play with the knife and I wouldn't let you. Knives are dangerous. You can play with this spoon, though - look, doesn't it have an interesting handle?"

If you want to read something, I'd recommend reading Playful Parenting by Lawrence Cohen, or How to talk. Both are aimed at older children but I found it helped to start working on the habits from this sort of age.

Yes, baby signing is great (although my DS didn't use the signs - we gave them up when he started saying the words instead).

Thanks. Yes, wondered what you were suggesting I do with the rugby ball, Jareth.

Thankfully she has quite a few words, and is getting more by the day, so sometimes she can communicate what she wants.

Yes, I have perfectly a desperately jolly tone of voice, I'm sure she thinks her mother is Joyce Grenfell.