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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

need to draw a line under dd's messing around at bedtime - please help!

12 replies

alittleteapot · 10/11/2011 21:25

She's 4 and has ALWAYS been tricky to get to sleep. Am sure have posted here before. We've had a good long patch recently - she's just started school and was so whacked bedtimes became a dream. But now she's built her resilience up she's trouble again. She's awake now having a tantrum in the other room with dp. We need to get seriously no nonsense but I need some really solid techniques to do this as can't face hours of tantrums each night. I know we need to discuss and negotiate less. Am thinking we need very simple rules and thinking of trying the marble jar thing where you take one out if they do bad bedtime, add one if good and then a treat when jar is full.

Really welcome any tips - it's really having a negative effect on us all as no one gets a restful evening when she's going through a bad patch.

ds is not great either so hoping we can get them all shipshape at same time.

Thanks for any help!

OP posts:

lollystix · 10/11/2011 21:31

What's your routine like for bedtime? Our have a very set format so we've not had too many issues.

Ds2 (3) has played up a bit when taking daytime naps - I put him out on the doorstep and told him he could sleep in his bed or the garden-I'm an evil mum but it always worked- he'd run straight to his bed. Marbles in a jar probably alot more positive though

tallulah · 10/11/2011 21:31

No suggestions but plenty of empathy. We are having the same problem. My 4 yo is still awake - tho at least tonight she is quiet - last night was a nightmare. Will watch with interest.

TeamDamon · 10/11/2011 21:33

What's her routine? and what is it she is having tantrums about specifically?

I think if you do get seriously no-nonsense (a la Supernanny) you will only have to deal with hours of tantrums for a few nights before she realises that the tantrums are not getting her anywhere. A good routine is meant to help - five minute warning before tidy up time, bath, milk, stories, bed and then the back in bed technique.

What happens if you ignore her tantrums completely?

TeamDamon · 10/11/2011 21:35

And why is your DP in there with her now, if it's well after her bedtime? Isn't that attention rewarding her for having the tantrum? - so of course she will continue since it is a method that works to get her what she wants.

Original poster

alittleteapot · 10/11/2011 21:40

routine bit embarrassing but here goes:
bath
bed - three stories
bottle in bed ( i know - bad for teeth - it's cos her little bro does - will stop soon)
stroking
sleep

issues are when she just decides she doesn't want to go to sleep, just gets up, mucks around, plays up, winds up, then her manicness collides with her fatigue and she melts down into shaking tantrums like tonight which culminate in her pushing a biting (very unlike her and definitely down to a cocktail of extreme tiredness and frustration) - she wants to stay up or she wants other things which we refuse. SOmetimes we've just let her wander around. We stay quiet and ignore her. Other times keep putting her back in bed. Know we're not consistent enough - so difficult at end of long day - so have just written down new rules and need to be absolutely rigid I know.

OP posts:

Original poster

alittleteapot · 10/11/2011 21:41

Yes but it's tricky because she shares with ds so will disturb him and also if we leave her she just follows us into the living room. Tonight I was taking her back to bed over and over. Dp was in there giving her four mins time out after she pushed me.

I know not showing my best parenting side here! Need to sort it as all else is pretty good!

OP posts:

TeamDamon · 10/11/2011 21:46

It does sound like it needs to be gritted teeth and the back to bed routine then. It always looked hellish for the parents on Supernanny but it did seem to work in about two or three nights

It's the consistency that's key, I think: once she knows that the routine is fixed, she will stop trying to see if tonight is one of the nights you will be lenient. As long as there are lenient nights, it's worth her trying!

Can you put your DS to sleep in your bed for a few nights while you sort your DD out? You can move a sleeping DS to his own bed when you go up.

CMOTdibbler · 10/11/2011 21:51

I'd put ds to bed in your bed so that you can deal with her on her own for a few days.
Put her to bed, and then don't give her any attention after that - stand at the bedroom door and as soon as she stirs, go in, lie her down, tuck duvet over, and go - no talking. Repeat until she goes to sleep. But you have to be totally consistent

MNHQ

OliviaMumsnet · 10/11/2011 22:01

Also why not buy her a nice cup and give her a cup of milk? Downstairs.
Then upstairs brush teeth and then story and bedtime.

LowLevelWhiiingeing · 10/11/2011 22:17

this is hard for all of you, but i do think you need to decide a new routine and absolutely stick to it.

I'm a fan of House of Tiny Tearaways, which was slightly kinder than Supernanny IMHO, but still not easy. it's called 'rapid return'.

decide a wind-down bedtime routine.

eg. milk and a biscuit, jamas, teeth, 1 or 2 stories (I would say 1, but I'm mean ). Decide how many stories and do not deviate. choose your routine that fits in with your family.

into bed, nanight, love you, kiss kiss.

the first time she gets up, "no, it's bed time now, back into bed, nanight" carry her if necessary. no other discussion.

the next time she gets up, " no, bedtime" carry back to bed. you don't need to be angry, just quiet and clear.

next time she gets up, carry back to bed with as little discussion as possible, preferably silent. the point is she doesn't get to engage with you (fun) after bedtime.

next time she gets up carry her back to bed without speaking and walk away.

do this as many times as necessary. this could be 20 times or more, but the point is she's learning that she doesn't get you engaging with her after bedtime. She needs to learn how to wind down and drift off without you. and you need to accept that she will disturb her brother and she shouldn't be rewarded for it.

As others have said, consistency really is the key, and it can work quite fast - night 1: horrible, night 2 horrible, night 3 bad, night 4 ooh, actually!

good luck teapot! bedtime nightmares are so stressful for everyone.

CointreauVersial · 10/11/2011 22:22

Completely agree with LLW.

If she's getting lots of lovely attention for her behavior she won't change.

Original poster

alittleteapot · 10/11/2011 22:23

Part of the problem is that she is and always has been so persistent. Even as a baby trying the pick up put down approach we carried on for 90 mins and dp did his back in! Putting her back to bed she runs straight back and grabs hold of me and won't let go, so the ignoring thing is very hard.

Having said that know you're all right. Have written new rules for bedtime and will use marble reward system and ignoring system and see how we get on.

And new rules includes change to cup of milk before teeth, you'll be glad to hear!

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