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Please help. DH and I are worried.

62 replies

ParanoidOrRightlyWorried · 24/09/2011 08:54

I've namechanged for this as some friends and family know my normal username. I'm so sorry this is a bit long. DJ and I are worried about our 19 month old DS. He seems to do/say some things that presumably should be good, and other things that are really beginning to make us feel a bit anxious.

Here's the good stuff:

He has around 220 words, and is saying things like 'mummy bah' (pointing at mummy's bag) and 'gee car' (green car). He is also saying things like 'uh' (up), and 'o' (on or off, depending on context).

His understanding also seems good; he follows directions (e.g. could you put the blocks back in the box? Could you show me where your shoes are?), he points at things (both when he wants something - although not always, sometimes he'll just say the word - and when he names something he's seen, like a digger in the street).

He seems to play with toys appropriately. Mostly vehicles, though!

He seems quite logical when naming something he doesn't know - he pointed at a hedge and said 'gee', his word for tree.

He can count: he knows the numbers up to ten, but actually gets the concept of counting objects up to three. He also seems to know the alphabet: I think he mainly picked this up from a combination of youtube learning songs for kids, which he loves, and from his Vtech bus which has letters on the side.

He's affectionate with us. We co-sleep and he likes cuddles, and snuggling up in bed - he stares into my eyes as I sing to him. He will often run up to me saying 'mummy' and bury his head in my legs as he cuddles me. Sometimes he will kiss me, without me asking. Often before he goes to sleep, he says 'mummy' and gives me a cuddle while resting his cheek against mine.

He loves books and will often sit through some fairly long ones, e.g. Mog the Forgetful Cat and the Gruffalo.

Things we're not sure about:

He's not especially interested in other children, although he does notice them. If another child takes something from him, he usually just lets it happen, looks at them and looks a bit bemused. If it's something he really loves, he will cry, however. Today he tried to add in a piece to a puzzle that was being played with by another child and she snatched it back (not nastily, just as children often do) and he looked at me as if to gauge my opinion on it. I smiled and shrugged and he then just moved onto something else. On the whole his eye contact seems good if we're out and about and he's playing at a distance - he responds to smiles and loves to play peepo.

Here are the things we are worried about:

  1. His eye contact can be intermittent. If you are up close to him or he is interested in something, he often won't look at you even if you say his name several times. For instance, we were at the sandpit and he found a car there. He was really taken with it and after playing with it for a while, did come to show it to me (he looked at me then), but after that he was so into it that he just completely ignored me saying his name and didn't look at me at all. Recently when I asked him where parts of his body were, I was sitting right in front of him, and he didn't look back in my eyes when pointing to them. However when I was standing up asking where his nose was, he pointed at it while looking at me.
  1. While he has a lot of words, his pronunciation is poor. I would say that most of them wouldn't be recognisable to somebody who didn't know him, e.g. 'baw' is ball, 'bar' is bath, 'ba' is brown, 'deh-doh' is yellow, 'die-dor' is dinosaur, 'gar-gur' is trousers, for instance. He also has some made-up words, i.e. banana is 'ma' and hungy is 'uh-boh' (combined with pointing towards the kitchen).
  1. He doesn't ask me what new, unrecognisable things are. It could be because I rush to explain things, but he doesn't really say anything that could be understood as 'what's that?'.
  1. Not overly interested in other children. Quite happy playing alone. He does like looking at children though sometimes, especially if they are laughing and playing together and often points out other children and says 'baby'.
  1. It seems to be more when he's tired but we've noticed when excited about something he slightly tilts his head and raises his arms quickly. He might shake his head once, almost like a shudder. We thought it was just a happy, delighted shudder sort-of-thing, but we're not sure. It usually happens when he sees something he likes, and is heading towards it, such as the bouncy car at one of the local playgrounds.
  1. Seems shy around new people. Often won't reciprocate smiles if somebody he doesn't know (or doesn't know well) smiles at him, and sometimes sidles away and glances out of the sides of his eyes into nowhere. We thought this was a shy/bashful thing but we read that side-glancing can be a bit of a red flag.
  1. Usually an initial dislike of new things, e.g. a new playgroup, new food, an unfamiliar book. When he doesn't want something, he moans and waves his hand as if waving/pushing it away. He has begun to say 'no no' but he tends to resort to the moaning/waving when cross.
  1. He still falls over a lot. His balance seems quite wobbly at times, especially when distracted, even though he started walking before he was a year old.
  1. This seems to be more when he's tired, but he still babbles nonsense quite excitedly, and can be quite uncoordinated in his movements. He's done it more than usual today and yesterday, DH noticed it as well.
  1. When he sees something he really likes, he will keep naming it and pointing at it over and over again. For instance, there was a digger on the road and he kept pointing and saying 'diddah' (digger). It does usually seem to be in an excited way, but it is repetitive.

We would hugely appreciate some thoughts or advice on which of the above things are probably nothing to worry about, and which, if any, are more concerning. I will be seeing the health visitor, but we are both feeling scared for our lovely son and would love to feel like we can talk to someone else about this without sounding either paranoid, or like we are stealth boasting because he has quite a few words. We're really not. We are struggling financially at the moment, and that is causing us a lot of worry, so we are unsure how much we are projecting our anxieties onto our poor little boy.

If you've got this far, thank you so much for reading :)

OP posts:
lisad123 · 24/09/2011 17:23

Coming from a different place here. My dds both have autism but will just share with you dd2 experience as she was picked up younger.
Her eye contact was only ever good with us, she hated other children near her but liked to watch them, she rarely pointed, she never brought anything to share with us, she still doesn't know abc or how to count passed five (shes 4), she hand flapped, and walked on toes, will only play with toys as they are meant to be used (so won't pretend a car is a rocket ect) and had her own words for things so; colour = juice, pink= cake ect.
She has a dx of autism and was first seen at 2 years old and dx at 3 years old, however with everything I said, she is high functioning and you wouldn't be able to pick her out of her group very easily.

I would certainly say your son may hold traits, BUT every child has! He sounds like his doing just fine and social skills of children develop slightly better after 2 years old.
I would keep a diary of your concerns for a few weeks, then talk to HV. But honestly he sounds wonderful but I never dismiss a concerned parent, they are rarely wrong.

ParanoidOrRightlyWorried · 24/09/2011 20:26

Again, thank you. Your replies have massively helped reduced the feeling of stress that was building up in us. I really appreciate hearing how other people also have/had these worries. We were feeling very alone with it all. We feel we are better dealing with the anxiety now and are trying to relax a bit and stop analysing poor DS? every move. The fear is, I am certain, intensified by the family history and our current financial situation, not to mention PFB syndrome ? all posters who have suggested that our behaviour could create a stifling, highly-strung and uncomfortable environment for our DS are spot on.

We?ve now agreed that we will no longer talk about this stuff in front of him, as he?s coming out of babyhood and will be picking up on it, if he doesn?t already. We?ve also agreed that we will do our best to relax and if he doesn?t want to pay attention to us, not to try and force it as I can see how that actually might make him avoid it more.

Bink, thank you - I found your post massively helpful. It really helps to look at it in the way you suggested, rather than try up to add up all the individual things that may or may not be ?red flags?. In my heart, at the moment, I do feel DS understands and ?gets? me. Sometimes he can definitely get a bit spacey, but then so can I (and his lovely grandmother, my MIL, is renowned for daydreaming!). Possibly another indicator that his social instinct is okay is that he seems to get jealous when DH cuddles me ? he homes in on me, pushes DH away and cuddles me instead! He definitely shares things with me, such as showing me cars/animals at playgroup, or bringing me a cup of ?tea? that he ?poured? with his play tea set.

So we?ll see how it goes, but thanks to all posters for enabling us to switch off the panic buttons for the moment.

OP posts:
PattySimcox · 24/09/2011 20:35

PoRW - if you were describing your DS in 3 years time then I would be concerned but what you are describing appears to be a delightful normal toddler.

I say this as the parent of a DS with ASD - it was obvious to us that there was something "not quite right" at around the 14 month mark.

AeolineReed · 24/09/2011 20:55

"Pouring" a cup of tea with a play tea set is a very good sign. Smile

lisad123 · 24/09/2011 21:49

"pouring cup of tea is a good sign"! eh why would that be?

DodieSmith · 24/09/2011 23:01

I think the comment about pouring a cup of tea is a friendly thing to say, and that's nice.

lisad123 · 24/09/2011 23:06

But I think the mistake often made with children with autism is "oh they are making pretend tea and oh they are changing babies nappy on dolly so therefore are displaying imaginative play = no autism. Neither of these things are proper imaginative play, they are route copied behaviour. If he was making tea with a proper tea party with bears and plastic Lego as food, that is imaginative play. Smile
Sorry it's something people often get confused about.

PotPourri · 24/09/2011 23:08

He sounds just adorable. And so do you.

But you are his mum and if you have an intuition that something isn't right, then talk to your health visitor. Some of what you mentioned (including the falling over and flappy hands when tired or excited) my niece did, and she was later diagnosed with dyspraxia and aspergers.

From my experience as a mum, then I think it sounds like a normal child - of which there is no real standard at that age. They really are all different, and I think on many things your little one sounds really advanced, so it stands to reason that some other things will still be developing.

matana · 25/09/2011 21:26

He sounds normal to me, really lovely actually. By way of contrast, I sometimes worry we're raising a hellraiser. He's 10 months and very, very enthusiastic around other babies - to the point where he'll shriek happily in their faces and make them cry because they're just not as, er, outgoing as him. Sounds to me like your little boy's personality is coming shining through, nothing more than that. No two children are the same.

Btw - he sounds quite advanced in some ways. My niece is 2.5 years and only just know 1-10.

Donkeyswife · 25/09/2011 21:55

ParonoidORW - I really really feel for you and would suggest you speak to your health visitor and doctor to get speech therapy if you feel that is right for you child and to eliminate any other probs you may not be able to pinpoint but feel that something is not quite right.

If I may, I'd like to share my experience of a problem we had with our DD. Firstly she has an older brother (by 2.3 years) who started speaking from a very young age and by the time he was 2 was articulate, could make sentences using different tenses and had a pretty wide vocabulary. However, I noticed when my little girl was around a year and a half that she wasn't really speaking but I thought best not to worry about it unneccessarily as she'd catch up. At her 27 month chekc up I mentioned this to the HV and also expressed concernes about her seemingly random inability to hear/selective hearing. HV told me not to worry but to keep an eye on it. (there was a child at her nursery born on the same day and he had much better oral skills). Anyway, when DD was 29 months old, her nursery called me in for a meeting and expressed how worried they were of her lack of speaking and concerns about her hearing and told me that at carpet time it would appear my DD couldn't hear as she'd just get up and go sit in a corner by herself - obviously this really alarmed me!. To cut a long story short, we rang the speech and language service for children thru the council and she was assessed very quickly and diagnosed with a mild speech delay (I thought it was severe btw), we had her hearing checked twice and it was all normal. I have just been through 6 monhts of hell worrying about my DD as during this time (she's now just turned 3), she had intensive speech therapy 3 times a week. At one point I was convinced she had a learning difficulty (speech therapist looked at me like I had munchausens by proxy), as my DD would randomly not interact at all and really appeared to be not there if that makes sense. Anyway to reassure you, I just want to let you know that we took her out of her nursery(she was there 3 long days a week) in early summer as I began to feel that she was perhaps not getting as much verbal interaction as she needed and she suddenly, well over a period of a few weeks, suddenly started talking and became a much more confident child. She is now happily settled at an amazing preschool. So, look at your child care provider if you use one and I would defo get your child seen by a speech therapist if just to put your mind at rest. Sorry for rambling... x

AeolineReed · 26/09/2011 11:29

lisad123, my son has autism, so I do know the difference between one kind of imaginative play and another. However, given the description that the OP has given of her son generally, I would say that this his playing in this way is (another) sign that his development is currently in line with that of a neuro typical child.

lisad123 · 26/09/2011 11:33

didn't mean to offend. Blush
Dd2 spent many days making me countless cups of tea, an Hv came round and she make her a cup, she commented about it all being ok as shes bringing tesand cake to us to share, which she soon changed her mind after an hour of same play sequence Grin

AeolineReed · 26/09/2011 11:38

Grin to same play sequence. I remember that well with my DS.

No offence taken. Smile

dietstartstmoz · 26/09/2011 11:43

OP, if you have concerns in a few months time then it's worth mentioning things to your GP. If ASD is suspected in a young child I think the general consensus at the moment seems to be a 'wait and see how he develops'. Your Ds sounds lovely, and as others have said he sounds like he is developing well. My DS2 has autism, he is now 4. We had no idea, and he attended nursery, passed all his developmental checks with the health visitor etc, it was only when he was 3 and went to pre-school that the differences between him and other children became more apparant. It can be very difficult to pick up on ASD traits when they're younger. DS2 sounds like he was doing similar things to your DS, he will do eye contact-when he wants to. he is very affectionate and loves cuddles, but he is autistic, and speech delay was one of the first signs we could have picked up on. try not to worry and enjoy your DS. If he is or he isn't ASD he will develop at his own pace, like all kids but you are right to be aware of it.

ParanoidOrRightlyWorried · 26/09/2011 20:15

Thank you again for more answers, they are all so helpful (am I beginning to sound like a stuck record yet?). Donkeyswife, you didn't ramble at all - I appreciate hearing all experiences. I am so glad your DD is now happy at preschool; how happy and relieved you must be after so much stress.

I've veered today between thinking maybe everything is fine and then worrying. Over the last few days DS has seemed to babble more. For example, he was running out of a play area today repeatedly saying 'dah-daw, dah-daw, dah-daw, dah-daw...' in his sweet little voice. I have no idea what 'dah-daw' means. He's still talking and saying all his 'normal' words but he's seemed almost quite frantic/over-excited at times, and the babble becomes more noticeable, especially before bed, when it's like a running commentary. I'm sure he wasn't doing it this much before.

His canines are coming through and it's definitely bothering him. His sleep has consequently suffered (as has ours!). I wonder if this could have anything to do with the increased babble?

Regarding imaginative play, he was shown once or twice how to 'pour the tea' when we gave him his teaset and since then he seems to be fairly happy to pours cups of 'tea' for me, DH and himself. I wish now DH hadn't shown him how to use it; it was just something he did automatically. It would have been more interesting to see what DS would have done without being shown. It did occur to me that DS could simply be very good at copying and taking pleasure in that, rather than the thought of pouring me imaginary tea. On the other hand, he picked up a big soft toy in playgroup today and spent a while cuddling it, culminating in kissing it on the mouth (after which the poor thing was chucked aside in favour of the nearest vehicle). Does that count as imaginative play? I really don't know.

I'm taking him to see the Health Vistor tomorrow, so it will be interesting to see how that goes. Any ideas on what in particular I should draw to their attention? I have no idea how much detail I will be expected to give!

OP posts:
lisad123 · 26/09/2011 20:27

Language in children with autism is
Complex. Dd2 and another child I know with autism spent months going dugger dugger all day!!
I would be tempted to take a list to Hv and see how it goes.
Hv was very lovely and I remember dd2 putting cars up and down garage thewhole time, wouldn't look Hv in the eye and stood on tip toes hand flapping Blush
I was always told that if you treat a child as if they had autism and they don't it won't do harm but if they have it's a great help.
Hope it goes well but be prepared that they may just say wait, which is fine for a few months but all research suggest early intervention has best outcome and I certainly see huge differences in my two girls, one wad dx at 5 the other at 3!

BoysAreLikeDogs · 26/09/2011 20:35

have a dig round this website

ask HV to check his hearing, they may do a quick tink tink behind his back with a couple of coins but I think to set your mind at rest you could ask for a full hearing test at hospital

good luck and best wishes

Iggly · 26/09/2011 20:45

Your little boy sounds very sweet. In a few months, his play will change considerable - only now at nearly 2 is DS really talking about his friends and when he has playdates he tries to boss them about whereas before he'd not be fussed.

I do think you and your DH need to consider ways of relaxing around and about your DS. DS is my pfb but I don't pay that much attention to the detailed things he does. I'm not sure how you go about it but as they get older you may well find something else to worry about which could stop you from enjoying your DS's childhood!

piprabbit · 26/09/2011 21:07

I'm glad you've decided to see your HV and hope they are helpful and reassuring.

Over-excitement at bedtime usually means that my DCs have got a little over tired. We get much galloping around and very little concentration linked with lots of meaningless chatter - we call it auto-witter. Perhaps being tired means that, although he still wants to chat, he's not focusing on the actual words IYSWIM.

FWIW dah-daw sounds like maybe being a fire engine/ambulance/police car, a sound which many small boys seem to be able to repeat almost endlessly (and sometimes force their mummies to join in - in public Blush).

Good luck. Hope it goes well tomorrow.

Dall · 26/09/2011 21:27

Hi there,

I just wanted to add my reassurance - my 21 month old boy is almost identical to this. Never occurred to me to worry tbh none of his friends ask "what is this?" for example - I hope your vist to the HV provides some reassurance. Please do keep us updated as I'm wondering now if I should be worried!

gobblygook · 26/09/2011 21:50

I sympathise hugely with you that you have this worry. Hopefully your HV will be able to put your mind at rest.

Personally, I think your DS sounds lovely and developing well.

But I do think that you sound like you have enormous anxiety. From professional experience, I think this is perhaps where you should focus your energies. It does sound like every one of DS's moves is scrutinised which must take away lots of the joy, and it must also be quite tiring for you. Besides, if you don't deal with the core reason for the anxiety, you will peel away this problem and always 'find' others behind it. It's a tough thing to say to someone, but what comes across in all your posts - quite overwhelmingly - is that you need to relax about your son and find some distance from your worries.

winnybella · 26/09/2011 22:02

AFAIR DD at 19 months was repeating everything over and over again, didn't like other children (would say no, baby! whenever one dared to approach her) etc. Even the not always looking back into my eyes thing as well. He sounds totally NT to me. Not one things makes me worry.

Children under around 2.5-3 yo are not very social beings, I thought everyone knew that.

Not to sound unkind, but imo perhaps you should look into the reasons for your anxiety, tbh.

winnybella · 26/09/2011 22:05

Oh, and about not reciprocating smiles- DD would always scream 'noooooo' when neighbours would smaile and say hello at that age. She's smiling back now except for our concierge that for some reason she loathes.

Zakinthos · 26/09/2011 22:05

Just wanted to add that if your ds is engrossed in playing with something as in sandpit scenario, he will not be able to shift his attention to what you are saying and continue playing at the same time. Toddlers that age have very single channelled attention and it is absolutely normal for them to not answer you or respond if they are engrossed in something. As others have said, he seems absolutely normal for a 19mth old child. And don't worry about the babble either, this is normal! Playing with sounds helps to develop their pronunciation of words and should be encouraged. As you are so anxious though I would just get your hv's opinion to put your mind at rest, but from everything you say, he seems a normal toddler.

FannyFifer · 26/09/2011 22:11

I have a 19 month old DD and you have pretty much described her, like 90% of that I could have written.

There is nothing there that jumps out at me as being anything other than normal.

I have an older son who is 6 and he was pretty much the same.

Try and relax and enjoy your little one, it's all just toddler behaviour to me and nowt to worry about.