Are your toddler's 'routines' bordering on obsessive ?

[Munchkinsugarpie]

My 2and a half yr old son seems to be developing more and more obsessive behaviour that - if you read too much - suggests almost autistic behaviour, so I wonder if anyone else has experienced similar things.

I know that routines = security for them, i.e. every night, we do bath, milk, clean teeth and bed, (in that order) BUT, he won't settle unless he has his cars (about 5 of them) lined up next to the bed, with his juice on one side of them and some milk on the other. Then we have a story, and then oddly, he insists on taking his pyjama top off and only then will he go to sleep.

Now these firm routines are spilling over into the day, i.e., he's won't eat unless his knife, spoon and fork are on the table. He won't get into the car unless he's wound down the back window as far as it will go (sod the weather!) and then, he'll let himself be strapped in.. I've noticed a lot more of these little peccadillos creeping in and he's getting quite obstinate about them. I've tried to divert his attention from them, but he won't be fooled! Is this the norm? I'd love to hear from you wise sages.....

Loobie - Thanks for replying, your comments were very interesting and helpful. I think I may have made my comments in the thread about the educational psychologist confusing, as my nephew was a poor sleeper as a baby, but as a child is good. From what my sister and myself have found out about Aspergers, it seems that there are quite a wide variety of symptoms (from want of a better word). My ds sounds quite similar to your ds in that he also gets totally absorbed and obsessed by things, in his case it has been trains, space and flags, and he knows these topics so well I feel that I should put him on 'Mastermind'. He also talks over adults and answers back in such a clever way that if it were'nt so rude, you would be impressed at his adult-like reasoning. Intellectually, he is extremely bright, like your ds, but emmotionally, he is immature. As your ds, he is difficult to punish, bribery, threats, praise, you name it, doesn't work, he can be so extremely strong-willed and unreasonable. However, one-to-one, he is great. Apparently, at school he is good, but the last time I spoke to his teacher was at parents evening last half-term, and since then his behaviour at home has got a lot harder to cope with. Am considering asking his teacher how he is doing, but don't want to make it look as though he is a problem, if he is ok at school. Incidently, I have had problems with him in the past at playschool (posted all about it on another thread, but can't remember which one!) with aggression and non-cooperation, but it seems as though he has grown out of this, at school anyway, home is a different kettle of fish!

My nephew on the otherhand, has more problems with aggression, that is physically fighting with other children at school, not always his fault, but he always manages to get involved. He has always found it hard to make friends, my sister says he is very awkward in social situations, can be rude to grown-ups, and can be difficult to punish also. However, he is very, very clever, but doesn't get fixated by things in the way that my ds does.

By the way, did your ds have a difficult birth? My eldest ds did, and so did my nephew, wonder if there may be some sort of link there. What are your views now I've elaborated a little more? Thanks in advance!

chanelno5-no my son didn't have a difficult birth if anything it was a bit quick for a first,3 hrs from first contraction to holding him in my arms,i think the aggression thing with your nephew is again more a sign of adhd,my ds is not really very aggressive apart from with his brother but that could just be a sibling thing.Aspergers children think very literally and ds1 aggression towards brother is usually when he is doing something that ds1 knows they are not allowed to do ,so he feels it is his place to punish ds2 by thumping him(very literal thinking wouldn't you say,not that we go around thumping the kids lol).Ds1 is also really sensitive to loud noise,he hates loud music or the t.v being up too loud,he also hates noisy boisterous children,when his brother is running round really noisily ds1 freaks out.Aspergers children are overly sensitive to external stimuli shown in my previous statement inds1 case.He dislikes close attention has never been a cuddly,kissy child he likes his own space and is also as you say in your sons case exceptionally intelligent but very emotionally immature.Have you had your son assessed by any one or spoken to anyone about your son,if so what kind of response did you get? thanks

Thanks for all your replies, everyone. It's really helpful to have such a broad range of experience. I'm still worried, I must admit- I think it's possible that he would fit the profile for aspergers, or possibly ADD. I've done a bit of reading on these- not enough and I'm well aware that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing...- and some stuff does resonate. For example, he has a fairly big vocab for his age but always talks in a (very sweet) singsong sort of voice. Also he has a few slightly bizarre mannerisms- eg special movements he makes with his hands, pulling faces. He is also, like his mum, a bit clumsy. The other thing is that apparently these things tend to run in families and I've been wondering about whether my Dad has undiagnosed something or other for a long time. Extremely clever and lovely man but socially awkward with only one real friend.
At the same time, a lot of my boy's "symptoms" are clearly to be found in many many "normal" toddlers and it's hard to know if a clear picture is possible while he's still so young. I suppose at the end of the day he'll either grow out of some of this stuff or he won't and we'll know to seek further help. Meanwhile I'm gonna try and take Winnie's advice and appreciate him- shouldn't be too hard because he's a bit of a sweetie, if I do say so myself!

Scummy, I don't want to lead you down the garden path here at all but co-incidentally my Mum, who has just finished a course studying autism, mentioned to me that apparently there are a lot of undiagnosed cases of asperger's syndrome that have been put down as 'eccentric' behaviour in the past. This is becoming less frequent as it is widely heard of now, but was common in the past... Also, I think you have every right to read as much as you can about it and I know it is to arm yourself with information for your own benefit, BUT as I've mentioned before a hell of a lot of people show signs of behaviour that fall into the 'autistic spectrum'. The reason being that a lot of these things are quite typical human traits - end of story. Its easy to get carried away with your fears, so hopefully when you talk to a health professional they will be able to get the whole picture sorted out for you and your son...

Loobie - No, I've never had my ds seen or assessed by anyone. My biggest worry was how he would be when he started full-time school, but fingers crossed, he seems to be ok (so far, anyway!). Having said that, his behaviour can be quite difficult to manage at home, as I'm sure you'll understand. On a more positive note, I read somewhere that when Aspergers children grow up if they find their niche, they can excel in it. Perhaps your ds will be the next Damon Hill and mine will be the next Patrick Moore! Good luck to you and your ds and keep me posted.

chanelno5-my ds problems are also apparent at school which obviously is giving us cause for concern so all the more reason why we want him checked out but its excellent that your son isnt having problems at school.My ds is due his assessment on 24 jan so i will lkeep you posted on how we get on.
Thanks

Channel, or the next Peter Howson, the artist who has Aspergers!

chanelno 5 our ds had his assessment yesterday and it was confirmed that he has aspergers syndrome,he has been referred to an autistic specialist who will carry out another evaluation and let us know how to go forward but for now i'm just glad to have a reason for his strange and upsetting behaviour.everyone keeps asking me what do we do now and i have to say well i really dont know,i just wanted the base diagnosis but now i'm not to sure what to do about it,but i am extremely relieved to know there's a reason for the way he is,just thought i would update you.

Loobie - Thanks for letting me know. I imagine that it is a relief now that you finally know that there is a medical reason for his behaviour, rather than him just being seen (by some people!) as odd, or even worse, bad. Also now you will hopefully get the help that him, you and the rest of the family deserve. I really do wish you all well and I'm here if you want a friendly, listening ear. Love Chanel.