Does anyone else have a 4 year old who argues ALL THE TIME?!

[CheerfulYank]

Because seriously...

Case in point. I just picked DS up from preschool and when we got home he was looking at books. He found something in the book basket and said "I want to keep this." I looked at it and it was the Operator's Manual for my brother's snowmobile. (DB lives with us.)

I said "Oh, you'll have to ask Uncle X when he gets home from work, but I think he needs that."

DS: "No he doesn't."

Me: "Well when he sells his snowmobile he'll need to give it to the new owner."

DS: "He's not going to sell it."

Me: "He is actually. I don't want to argue. Just no, you can't have it. Put it back and find something else."

DS: "No, he's not going to sell it."

And on, and on, and on, and onn.....until he finally gets sent to his room. Then he comes down a few minutes later and tells me he is "ready to be nice." He has a skeleton noisemaker with him that you wave back and forth and the head bounces around and makes the most Godawful clicking noise you ever heard. He begins to play it. Riiiight next to my head.

Finally I said that if he wanted to play with it he could play with it upstairs.

DS: Why?

Me: Because the noise is bothering me right now. Go play with it upstairs and then you can watch your show in a minute.

DS: Why don't you like the noise?

Me: Right now it's just hurting my ears.

DS: But you like it sometimes?

Me: Sometimes it's okay, but not right now.

DS: Why not right now? What if I play it softly?

And on, and on, and on, and onnnnnnn!

ARRRGGGHHH! Am I just incredibly short tempered? It's doing my head in! I try just refusing to engage with him and saying "I'm not going to talk about that anymore" but then he will keep repeating it or tantrum.

Conversations like that happen about every half hour, and I swear every third sentence begins with "But Mommmy...." DS, get ready to go please. "But Mommy...." DS, would you like peas or broccoli? "But Mommy...." DS, the dog doesn't like it when you step on his tail. "But Mommy..."

Does anyone have any advice on dealing with this stage without becoming a madwoman?!

He likes the thought of earning money and he loves "responsibiliy" like feeding our dog or watering the plants, etc. So I think maybe I will have a checklist for him and he will get a dime for each list he finishes, to be in put his bank? And then when he argues and doesn't stop he can "owe" me a dime, or something?

Am I grasping at straws?!

It just doesn't seem to work to ignore him because, as I stated, in the first example he would then take the manual and write all over it. And I really don't like the whole "no it doesn't!" when I tell him that I think something looks like something, because I want him to realize that it's okay for people to think different things about things. I don't want to set myself up for needless power struggles but nor do I want him to manipulate his way into getting what he wants by wearing people down.

Argh!

Sorry yanky i have the same probs here, except i am starting to gain a bit of control, if the boys get argumentative, they have a warning, if they persist then i take away privileges. Even if it takes me forever i will gain control.

Have you tried that kinda tactic?

I have but he doesn't have a lot of privileges yet! :o He gets to watch shows on the laptop sometimes but I don't think he'd really get it if I took that away.

I think once we settle into our routine it will help too; we're only just back to school and work.

I just hate feeling like I'm sending him to his room every second.

If its the only way he may stop the behaviour then stick with it.

What about a reward chart?

I think I will try a reward chart or have DH make a simple program on the computer that DS can click. Then he'll think it's a "game".

Sending him to his room doesn't really stop the behavior, it just makes it so that he gets out of my face and stops his incessant arguing.

I just hate this, I wanted to be the kind of mother who explained things so clearly and fairly that the DCs just fell in line because I was so reasonable. This was obviously something I imagined before I actually had a child. :o

Repeat after me loudly

Ds god gave you one mouth and two ears

Listen twice as hard as you talk

I sat Ds down at this age and said he was part of a family and that if he was old enough to answer back he was old enough to understand respect and his role in the family.

Each time he answered back he was given a [relatively minor] chore to do, and told the wining or arguing could be resumed after he had pitched in and helped me finish my tasks, them I could listen properly.

He us 8 now and not only can he avoid me like the plague if h look busy, he can now recognise when I am genuinely stressed or busy and utter those magic words "can I do anything to help?"

It will get better

OMG OMG OMG!

Lightbulb moment.

Wait for it...

Earplugs...

Yeah, he sounds the same as mine.

Yup earplugs help too

Earplugs sound good.

DD is like this. She is almost 5 and hasn't grown out of it yet [sigh]. Even her erstwhile nursery manager, who adores her, had her for holiday club and said she reached the stage of:

DD:
Mrs X: DD?
DD: Yes?
Mrs X: Stop. Breathe.

TBH, at home have largely given up subtle approaches and reached the point of just saying "DD, just stop talking". Her brain is hardwired to her mouth, and she will argue that black is white purely (as far as I can see) for the fun of it.

She's going to be a lawyer!

Quite possibly, crunchie, but not one of those altruistic fight-the-lost-cause ones. Definitely a corporate lawyer. People/Corporations will pay out vast sums of money purely on condition that she shuts up and goes away.

(although her technique may need a little refining. She once recently tried to argue that DH was not driving them home from school, but was going somewhere else. This sort of thing (along with "black is white" type statements) are red rags to DS. He tried reasoning, and arguing, and finally, at the point where they were driving in through the gate and DD had her book bag over her head so that she could still deny that they were in fact going home, even DS saw the funny side )

DS is 3.9 and currently starting the argumentative/defiant stage. So far I have been able to stop him arguing, by stating my case a few times and then giving up and saying something like "fine, have it your own way, black is white then" at which point DS says "ok, sorry mummy, no black IS black, I sorry mummy". I can see this bit stopping very soon though... :(

oh, I have one of these too. Never shuts up. Always arguing. I thought it was the terrible threes but now we're almost 4 and it show no sign of abating. He'll argue about anything, especially if I say no to something. Immediately he'll yell YES and off we go again.

Just about to start waking him up. More trauma...

Stinking headache today Cheerful but after you mentioning this thread to me, I had to pop by. Have you got "How to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk" That is fab for ideas. Of course it may have been mentioned already down thread but my head hurts too much to look.

My DD can sometimes be like this too, but with the ideas from this book I'm making head way.

We have these and I DO wear them. Sometimes it helps.