Bullying - is it really getting worse or just more publicised?

[pfer]

I'm sure we all worry about bullying, but it seems that it's always in the news now and increasingly it's girls. Is there really more going on or is it just on the telly more? I don't recall it being this bad at my school. Anyone else?

I think part of the isue is that violence is now not tolerated, whereas when I was growing up a smack was just par for the course. If I got hit by a kid at school, it wasn't a huge issue: there were no legal cases, bullying policies, whatever. Now, parents live under the threat of a law suit if their kid hurts someone (we are in the process of taking out NAS insurance in case Sam hurts anyone).

That's a good thing of course. At least the kids who call childline are realising there'san issue and asking for help.

Oh good grief, here's another

Do they do things differently in Wales?

'From expat's post I'm wondering if the problem about involving the police might be that if cases like this go to prosecution, would the parents of the victim hold the school/council responsible and sue?'

It wouldn't surprise me if that's their (the councils') motive behind trying to keep the police out of it. How they get away w/it is beyond me. If such assaults occured in, say, a pub that is private property, the police still become involved and the case goes to court.

Why should it be different when it involves children on public property?

Maybe they'd do more about it if they were held accountable - financially and otherwise - for criminal activity that takes place on their public property.

Yes Jan, we do things differently here. I have to say, as far as I can see there's no bullying in ds's school here, compared to the one in England. The education and health services do seem different. The school would say it's due to heavy input from community / Church and there does appear to be more large famillies, perhaps where the kids have learned how to get along? BUT it could well be nothing to do with that and I admit to chucking out ideas at random from my comparisons. But then, ds's school here: exceptionally posh, ds's school in Somerset: sink estate.

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Some of you may recall that we had to withdraw DS1 from his primary school last May when he was in Y6 because of bullying which was not dealt with by the school, despite lots of meetings and promises on their part.

I was collared by the head last week (DS2 and DS3 still attend the school) to tell me that they are having a whole week on bullying issues at the school as a direct result of what happened to DS1. I had told the head about Kidscape and the fact that DS1 had attended an assertiveness training course at Kidscape. Following this, the head has been in contact with them, obtained loads of their excellent resources and has arranged for the Kidscape team to come to the school to take courses there.

I'm so glad that the school is now taking this issue seriously and not just brushing DS1's withdrawl from the school as the result of over-protective parents.

I think that it's a mix of more reporting, probably higher levels of violence, but also less tolerance of bullying / more recognition of it as an issue. I think that most kids now and in the past have some experience of bullying or at least harassment. However I do think that playground fights were considered more "normal" in the past (from both experience, and also considering many older books about schools). Schools were probably more discipline orientated, and respect for teachers, in general was higher. When communities were more cohesive what you got up to was more likely to get back to your parents (partly because it was more likely that neighbours etc might know who your parents were). Parents were probably more likely to physically punish their children. Finally I think that there were more between school fights (I certainly remember a few) which may also have been alternate ways for bullies to "express" themselves. Re. girls, I think that older girls are probably more physically expressive, and this is part of the change in culture (anything boys can do we can do worse IYSWIM). Then a lot of this recent bullying in the news has been about older kids - I wonder whether in the past these kids would have been at school at all?

Meggymoo,

You were fantastic - you practically saved your sisters life I think...

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Well meggymoo, I don't know about that - I would say the ends justified the means on this occasion..

Anyone else read any of Steve Biddulphs stuff? He says that what's lacking is mentoring at the necessary age. Boys in particular need this and can easily go off the rails without it. I know that in the US they have Big Brother / Big Sister things where kids spend time with an adult (who isn't their parent) doing fun stuff. As kids tend to listen to other adults more than their own parents it seems to work. Anyone heard of these schemes being available here?

Anyone else read any of Steve Biddulphs stuff? He says that what's lacking is mentoring at the necessary age. Boys in particular need this and can easily go off the rails without it. I know that in the US they have Big Brother / Big Sister things where kids spend time with an adult (who isn't their parent) doing fun stuff. As kids tend to listen to other adults more than their own parents it seems to work. Anyone heard of these schemes being available here?

Bullies are getting bigger

meggymoo, very sorry for what your sister suffered, but very impressed by how you handled it - seems to me that you had no alternative.

A while ago a friend of the family was being bullied, the school did nothing, the girl's mother pleaded with the bullies to leave her daughter alone to no avail - the only thing I could think of was to get all the men that we knew together to try and intimidate the bullies - unfortunately and of course no-one ever did anything about it and I don't know what happened to the girl, but I really didn't see any other effective means of dealing with it, since the school and the bullies' parents were so ineffective.

Freckle, v pleased that the school has learnt something from the bullying of your ds and has realised where it was going wrong.

Bullies speak the language of intimidation - that's their currency, so I think that threatening them in turn may be somewhat risky (legally etc) but invariably quite effective.

whats shocking to me is the level of violence i am hearing in the media - and more shocking to me ( for no explicable reason) is the level of violence from girls.

when i was at school it was sniggering, name calling, pushing, isolation, victimisation.

now its out and out assault with weapons.

my mother always told me " ignore them, their jealous, dont fight back, hold your head high, have grace and poise and walk away becuase you are the better person"

b%ll%cks

i tell my kids " if they hit you, hit them harder"

scissors girl charged with GBH

Hallelujah. Now what about the Sheffield slasher?

Meggymoo, I wish I had had an older sister like you. I was very badly bullied at one school. Yours may not be an approach which is encouraged by people who do no more wring their hands, but frankly I salute you. I'm not normally in favour of rough justice, but it's a damn sight more effective than leaving children to suffer, or even die.

I am still in touch with one girl from this pathetic excuse for a school (an ex-grammar with a great reputation). Happily none of the former bullies have achieved much. But it changed me, and still affects me to this day, I think.

'than' wring their hands.