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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

punishment for my 4 plus dd at school

42 replies

ricks · 26/05/2011 10:20

My dd is in preschool at a private school and all her classmates including her often speak stupid words like poopo and wee unnecessarily. I knew this fact as we (parents) keep meeting at birthday parties of our children and i am also working on it. Yesterday my child was punished in the school for speaking this word even after the class being warned the previous day. Punishment was to sit in the toilet for some time. Is this REASONABLE? My dd was so upset and she was so embarrassed to share it with me even, she was crying for no reason and was cranky in the evening. I am also upset and have talked to her teacher as well to nip these things in the bud as u can let the habit first develop and then just warn and punish. The teacher says it is difficult to track such things and she being the eldest in her preschool class, should understand it.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

pilates · 26/05/2011 12:10

It does seem a bit harsh, but I bet she won't do it again.

bluebobbin · 26/05/2011 12:12

It seems a little unusual but I think I would be OK with it for either of my kids (who are aged 5 and 3).

Chundle · 26/05/2011 12:23

To be honest with you I doubt the punishment would've been as severe had it been MS school. My dd has been told off at school for saying silly words like this at school but that's all it was a telling off. All kids do it it's funny to them! They have to go through these funny kid phases regardless of what school they attend. Tbh I wouldn't be happy with that punishment bit degrading for a small child

tomhardyismydh · 26/05/2011 12:39

abusive, unhygienic humiliating and demoralising. I would be calling ofsted and logging an official complaint, how dare they do that to any child. The fact she is the oldest has nothing to do with it, she is four for goodness sake. Do not allow them to get away with this.

time out yes but in the toilet [shocked]

sotiredandfedup · 26/05/2011 12:57

Making a preschool child sit on the toilet as a punishment definitely NOT REASONALE in my opinion. A toilet is a place they have to visit to relieve bodily function, it is not a place for punishment. Not wanting to be dramatic, but a child could get so embarrassed and traumatised by this that they then develop an aversion to going to the toilet as they see it as a place of punishment. It is degrading and embarrassing. But, besides the physiological effects, it is a not appropriate. Toilets are unhygienic and not a place that any person should spend a lot of time in other than to, er, relieve themselves.
I agree with tomhardyismydh and would immediately call ofstead and log an official complaint, if only to stop other children having to experience this sort of inappropriate punishment.
Oh, and by the way, all small children think words like poopoo and wee is funny. It is a stage they go through and is totally harmless really. It's when they start swearing that I would expect the school to start punishing them, not for harmless, silly words that they will just grow out of. The best way to deal with it is to ignore it as they soon grow out of it.

boohoohoo · 26/05/2011 13:13

I think punishing a four year old for saying poopoo and weewee is wrong anyway as most children go through this phrase, but time out on a toilet! And your paying for that - shocked!!!!

Original poster

ricks · 26/05/2011 13:24

Thanks for the msgs and i am trying to digest this but my gut feeling is telling me not to. My daughter didnt say much about it but i know she is trying to be brave by swallowing this embarrassing incident. But at the same time, they say that its good to stay at good terms with the school and the class teacher as they are the ones who take care of our darlings when they are in school. Though i really don't want the school to go away with it. Dilemma

OP posts:

PlumBumMum · 26/05/2011 13:29

Agree with sotired punishing a child by making them sit on the toilet is wrong, I would be worried that it make my child not want to go to the toilet,
think this has been handled all wrong.
Did the teacher inform you of the punishment? I wouldn't be pleased with this at all.

PuppyMonkey · 26/05/2011 13:32

Totally OTT reaction by the school. My four-year-old went thru a phase of saying "poo poo willy" all the time . We ignored it and she stopped doing it. As most kids would. Worth a word with the head, I'd say.

sunshineandbooks · 26/05/2011 13:33

Totally unacceptable and I can pretty much guarantee that OFSTED would come down on this like a tonne of bricks. You are talking about pre-schoolers here, not even reception year of primary. EYFS guidelines try to avoid all talk of punishments and focus on positive reward-based discipline.

There's no point in striving to remain on good terms with the provider if the provider is unreasonable. It's the institutional equivalent of walking on eggshells to avoid triggering the temper of an abusive man.

I'd be finding a different pre-school

Sorry for the extreme reaction but no way would I tolerate this and I personally think said provider should be investigated.

Rosa · 26/05/2011 13:36

Wrong wrong wrong- time out yes/ possibly but not in the toilet FGS My 5 yr ols is going through the booby / willy stage as is most of her class next week we will be back to Barbie again..I hope....

tomhardyismydh · 26/05/2011 13:44

ricks you have no loyal or moral obligation to this school, If im honest I would not be returning my child there again.

The fact that they are the people who are or should be caring for your daughter in your absence gives you the right and responsibility to challenge any wrong doing. I think if this goes unchallenged your dd will come away with the message that any adult who is responsible for her care can treat her in any way they like regardless of her rights.

It is abusive and you have a duty to your dd to challenge this. It does not need to be difficult for you to challenge this, call ofsted imediatley they will guide you as to what to do.

from what you say this has had an effect on your dd already, you need to show her you are the parent who will protect her from this sort of ill treatment treatment.

littleducks · 26/05/2011 13:49

Why the toilet?

Was it, "oh X you said wee/poo, so you must need the toilet surely? as thats when we say that?"

or was it an actual timeout in the toilet?

I would be very unimpressed with the second.

Ds and another boy were playing a game saying 'shit' at nursery . They got a stern talking to and have never said it again.

Original poster

ricks · 26/05/2011 13:59

Littleducks it was time out in the toilet ..thats really bothering me and how traumatizing would have been for my little girl. The assistant gave this punishment and the class teacher was not there at the time of the incident. But when the class teacher was back, she had a word with my daughter and told that my dd was quite embarrassed to discuss about it when she was allowed to come out of the toilet. DD told everyone that she went to the toilet because she wanted to do wee. horrific people

OP posts:

piprabbit · 26/05/2011 14:11

Toilets are notoriously a really point of worry and fear for young children starting school. They worry about the cleanliness, being able to cope, having to ask to go, being able to clean themselves etc.etc. This can lead to accidents, avoiding the toilets by not drinking, constipation and other problems for the child.

Conflating the toilet with punishment is just adding to that burden of worry.

I think the OP should speak to the school and ask them how they would deal with this situation in future as timeout in a toilet is not appropriate.

culturemulcher · 26/05/2011 14:16

Ricks as the other posters have said, every child goes through a scatological phase. The teaching assistant's punishment was inappropriate and possibly damaging.

I would definitely have a chat with the class teacher about it after school. You don't need to make a huge fuss, but just ask the teacher if she/he thinks the punishment was appropriate. If they back up the TA, then perhaps you should have a quiet chat with the Head Teacher about it.

Roo83 · 26/05/2011 14:38

My ds goes to a preschool attached to a private school to-if I thought they had treated him like this I would be disgusted. Even if he'd done something outrageous this punishment isnt appropriate, but for just being a bit silly it's completely ott! I can understand in a way that you don't want to rock the boat, but don't forget, the school is a business and you're a paying customer so you deserve to be heard. Goodluck with it.

ConnorTraceptive · 26/05/2011 14:42

Ridiculous punishment for a fairly typical behaviour in a four year old (and 5,6,7 year old - something to look forward to OP!)

Fine to remind the children that it's silly and to ask them to stop but totally OTT to sit them in the toilet as punishment

ConnorTraceptive · 26/05/2011 14:44

What are they going to do when they move onto the "willy's" and "Bums" phase (which they WILL)

littleducks · 26/05/2011 14:47

Pull her out then, that is inapropriate

QuickLookBusy · 26/05/2011 14:50

It is very normal for 4/5 year olds to say words like that. It should have been handled much better. Any sane adult would realise that sending a 4 year old to sit in a toilet as a punishment is totally inappropriate.

I would want to know from the head, what other types of timeout/punishment they use in the school.

ChildofIsis · 26/05/2011 14:51

As it's a fee paying school you the customer is directly paying their wages. They're the ones who should be keeping in with you.

This is inappropriate in a pre-school setting.
What on earth would they do with a real swear word?

Tgger · 26/05/2011 15:07

This sounds DREADFUL.

Really, I would storm into the head teacher's office and speak my mind. I would then publish what happened on twitter, naming the pre-school, and then I would find a different pre-school where they RESPECT children (and their developmental stages/behaviour).

Perhaps this approach is not for you, but I would certainly want to go to the head teacher express concern, want an asssurance it would not happen again that the teaching assistant would be reprimanded etc etc.

poor your daughter. At my son's nursery (3 and 4 year olds) they have a "naughty chair" that is used on rare occasions and bad behaviour is brought up with parents straight after it has happened- that is proper bad behaviour (hitting people etc) not silly normal pre-school language.

stickylittlefingers · 26/05/2011 15:19

they're effectively punishing a pre-schooler for being a pre-schooler.
being told to stay in the toilet is very inappropriate.

Noteworthy that it was the TA - sounds as if this person needs some extra training, at the very least (although her lack of common sense in her basic instincts of what to do in the situation would alarm me, if I were employing her).

Have you spoken to the head teacher? I would be surprised if s/he were happy with this. Private schools need to keep the parents happy, and this would make a lot of parents unhappy I think.

BriansMum · 26/05/2011 15:24

Appalling, utterly appalling.

I'm a state school teacher and there is no way we would even consider this as a punishment let alone get away with it if we did.

Strong words need to be spoken and, if no result, remove her. What the hell do they do for punishment when they get to YR and beyond?!

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