Feel a failure ..... DS keeps pooing pants and won't stop picking nose!!!

[MrsOB]

I am at the end of my rope with my DS (nearly 5) who not only poos his pants frequently but is obsessed with picking his nose to the point where, when I collect him from school, I have to clean his nose area as it is covered in dried blood.

Seriously, I am EMBARRASED by this behaviour! He looks like an urchin when I collect him - covered in mud, blood and s*t (well, obviously not covered in s*t on the outside ....)

I have tried sticker charts, taking away his DS and stopping sweets. Nothing helps ....... on Friday last week I collected him and he had done both. The week before he pooed his pants twice ......

I've asked him about the pooing pants and basically he says that he doesn't want to stop what he's doing (e.g. playing) to go to have a poo and just does it in his pants. But then he gets upset when he has done it. I feel so bad when he says "I was upset because I pooed my pants and I wanted you Mummy".

With the nose, it's habit, I know that ... and I know that all kids do it, but he has made such a state of his nose - it's constantly bleeding, the skin inside it is raw. I've tried putting vaseline inside with a cotton bud to stop it crusting over and tempting him to pick. One morning he vomited because he ate a particularly horrible bogey (sorry TMI!!).

I am in tears writing this, I feel like such a rubbish parent - and a total failure. Why can't he stop doing this????

To top it all, there is a child in his class with anger issues (e.g. has a dedicated TA there to hold him down when he loses his temper) and my DS has started copying this behaviour .... kicking me and hitting himself around the head and scratching himself when he is angry.

I have threatened to send him to school in a nappy but haven't done it. I feel so bad thinking that the other kids will laugh at him but then I don't want the other kids to think that he is 'that boy that smells of poo" either .

Any advice greatly apprecaited .......... blimey, I'm going to have a MASSIVE glass of wine tonight.

gosh, have school suggested anything? they must realise when he has soiled himself?

i would suggest short term measure of making him wear gloves all week during half term perhaps to try and stop the nose-picking? once it has all healed up he it probably won't annoy him so much that he then wants to pick at it

i think you need some help and support from school with the poo issue though, because you can't actually do anything about it while he is at school!

do you work? if not then you could even suggest going into school at break and lunch times and makihng him go to the toilet? because i don't think teachers will be able to make him do it?

oh and take him to the GP just to rule out any physical cause, because you don't want to treat him as if he is lazy/naughty if he can't actually help it

You're really not a rubbish parent. They all do things like this, you just don't see other dcs doing it. Mine is a nose picker too - quite mortifying watching the school play dvd with her right at the front, having a good pick. Others in her class (age 5) poo their pants. I'm quite sure he won't be the only one. Just keep telling him, over and over again, to not do these things and one day he'll stop (so my MIL tells me). Mine also bites her toenails if it makes you feel any better. Enjoy your wine and don't worry.

i had the same problem and the answer is to give him his pants to wash by hand in the sink. help him wash them. i read this in a book and although i felt awful doing it it really worked.

with the nose picking put something called stop and grow on his nails. about 3 pounds from a chemist. tastes vile. i put mine on my kids while they are sleeping as they hate it.

can you also sit down and explain that if he has tantrums you will ignore or give time out. count to three and move him to a boring room.

you are not a rubbish parent. you care deeply for your son but have just stumbled into a problem. it will all be history in a few months hopefully.

Re the pooing ignore ignore ignore, change him and clean him but dont say anything just change him as if it were a normal everyday thing, if he gets no reaction from you he will stop, i had the same problem with my dd and she stopped pooing her pants within a week!

I have no idea with nose picking!

i don't think the pooping is attention seeking behaviour though. it seems more that son can't be bothered to stop playing and go to the loo.

Two separate issues here.

1. Poo. This is hell, but you have to pretend to be calm about it. This book is brilliant and I wholeheartedly recommend it. We had soiling problems with DS2 - still do to some extent, but things are hugely better than they were this time last year. Ignoring it isn't always the best option, but being totally nonchalant about it is usually a good thing. DS2 does actually have a sanction when he poos his pants now - he is banned from the computer until he has gone in the loo. But everyone has a different situation and what works for some may not work for others. Thoroughly recommend the book though.
2. Nose-picking. Just roll with it (no pun intended). I have tried explaining to my DSs that nose-picking is ok, just in private. It hasn't really worked. Fiddle toys do help though - you can often find them on ebay - things like a tangle, or a bit of blu-tac, gives DS1 something to do with his hands other than stick them up his nose.

I'd put the energy into adressing the poo problem first, as that's far more impactful on his social relationships and self-esteem.

I agree with him having to wash his own pants, change himself etc. That way he will hopefully realise that just going to the toilet is much easier and quicker and he can go straight back to playing afterwards. My ds is quite a bit younger but we did this with him and (amongst other things) did help. Have you tried sitting him on the toilet with a book or something at a set time each day? I know my ds usually needs a poo after eating, so maybe you could try in an evening about 10/20mins after dinner? Hopefully if he does it daily at home he won't need to go at school at all

Please get the pooing checked out - he could well have chronic constipation with overflow which means that he loses the sensation of needing to poo and additionally fresh poo flows around the blockage

I agree stop n grow nail paint stuff is worth a try for the picking

This has absolutely nothing to do with parenting, it's a development hiccup. Lots of kids have these problems.

I would take him to the GP to rule out nasal infections which can make the nose very itchy - it may be that he needs some naseptin or similar ointment to kill all the bugs in his nose anyway if he's had his hand up it for a while, this will allow it to heal and if it's itchy, stop the itchiness.

Regarding the pooing, rule out medical problems first and up his fibre, fluids and exercise. Get him to change his own things and obviously if it happens at school, talk to the school about it and share your plans for tackling it. He may well be really constipated poor thing, he probably gets sudden urgency and then it's too late. It's really hard for little kids to admit they can't get there in time if they think you will blame them. DD (same age) will come home now and then with skiddy pants and she says 'I didn't realise I needed to go till it's too late' - for her we just increase the amount of soft fruit she eats when this happens and it sorts it out very quickly but when it's hot they also need to drink a lot more.

As for the vile behaviours of boys, well I have one and yes they do seem to find the horrid things don't they - I'm sure it's nothing to do with being a boy but it seems to happen. Get him a wristwatch to fiddle with. Or those shaped rubber bands to ping on his arm.

Don't worry, he'll grow out of both these problems. You are not a bad parent. A bad parent would be yelling at him and telling him he was a filthy beggar (which I'm sure you have probably thought but not said at least once (I know I have)).

And other parents aren't judging you. They probably barely notice. Other kids as well. Kids are nine parts mud and sputum you know :)

On the nose picking - you have to get rid of the bogeys by giving him a hot steamy bath every night to loosen the bogeys and clean his nose out properly yourself with damp cotton wool. He will stop picking his nose if there is nothing up there.

Can you do a deal with school to pick him up at lunch time and bring him home and try to get him to do poo at home?

Or you could get him a can of Sterimar and blast the buggers out - I use that when I have a cold, it really removes all traces.

Poor you. But don't beat yourself up about it, it WILL get better.

With the poos, is he comfortable at home about wiping his own bottom and going to the toilet on his own? We had a dreadful protracted time toilet training DS2. Once he'd finally got the hang of it at home, he still had occasional accidents at nursery and while part of it was him not wanting to stop what he was doing to go to the toilet, part of it, I realised, was that he didn't like going for a poo on his own.

I also think that children really need to feel engaged with the whole toilet process. DS1 was a breeze because he just wanted to do it right and to be seen to be doing it right. DS2, OTOH, couldn't give a monkeys, and was, in consequence, a blimmin nightmare.

My ds was constantly burbing. I brought him to the gp a couple of times who said to keep an eye on it but that he couldn't find anything physical. His advice to me was to completely ignore it - not comment on it at all. He said kids go through this kind of thing. They are getting used to their bodies I guess. But in my ds's case it's a habit that happens particularly when he is stressed. For example it ramped up before dd was born and then completely stopped as soon as she arrived. It has started again now and I think again this is emotional. It drives me mad, especially when done in my face while he is going to sleep, but on the other hand I think that me punishing him would be worse.

WOW, goodness .... thanks so much for the advice from everyone. I have to admit that I sent him to school in a nappy today ... he was so upset and I was upset too (when I got to the car - sobfest!).

I've only just had a chance to check this thread (at work so not much of a chance to review) but I'll go online later and really go through the advice.

Again, I really appreciate the input from you wise people - it's good to know that I'm not the only parent who has ever gone through something like this.

xxx

if he is picking his nose so much that it bleeds then using steam/sterimar etc won't help because it'll be scabs and stuff that need to heal over. and it will be irritating him, which is then why he picks more, so i think you need to try and physically stop him doing it until it's all healed and better and then hopefully he'll forget about it

not sure nappy will work to be honest with you. it will just humiliate him.... imaginet he kind of teasing he will get if anyone finds out :(

Sterimar is sterile saline thisisyesterday and it does dry out lesions quite well.